GratefulFlyers Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 hours ago, radoran said: I think if they start doing the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" line, they're no different at all. We'll see whether the BS line was for the players or the fans. "We're not looking to trade Seels" isn't a good place to start. Excellent. Aside from your opinion of Tortorella’s quote I agree completely because there’s nothing to argue either for or against. You proposed a couple “IFs” and then projected skepticism based on those “IFs.” Hey it’s a free country I’d only ask why. Why invest time and effort (i.e. forum posts) describing future disappointments that may never happen? re: Tortorella’s quote - assume it is Briere’s intention to extend Seeler. Can we have a reasonable debate about Seeler’s value or does extending him automatically mean “the rebuild” was BS all along? btw the quotation marks around “rebuild” are a nod to you (and @flyercanuck). From reading your posts my impression is you’re convinced that Briere isn’t engaged in a rebuild at all. If I read you correctly you see “same old Flyers.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 17 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Excellent. Aside from your opinion of Tortorella’s quote I agree completely because there’s nothing to argue either for or against. You proposed a couple “IFs” and then projected skepticism based on those “IFs.” Hey it’s a free country I’d only ask why. Why invest time and effort (i.e. forum posts) describing future disappointments that may never happen? re: Tortorella’s quote - assume it is Briere’s intention to extend Seeler. Can we have a reasonable debate about Seeler’s value or does extending him automatically mean “the rebuild” was BS all along? btw the quotation marks around “rebuild” are a nod to you (and @flyercanuck). From reading your posts my impression is you’re convinced that Briere isn’t engaged in a rebuild at all. If I read you correctly you see “same old Flyers.” The first question we need to ask is, who the hell is Seeler to turn down 3 million a year. He’s never been anything more than a #7 defenseman. Ville Leino and JVR both had huge seasons as UFAs, we let Leino walk and he flopped in Buffalo, we signed JVR and he never played close to his last year in Toronto. Yet here we are again. Just like when we bought out a few bad contracts and immediately signed that washed up pylon Lecavalier. We never learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 19 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: my impression is you’re convinced that Briere isn’t engaged in a rebuild at all As I've said, impression is continually being made. There are points where you sit and evaluate whether what people are saying matches their actions. 20 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Can we have a reasonable debate about Seeler’s value or does extending him automatically mean “the rebuild” was BS all along? I am happy to have a reasonable debate about Seeler's value. He was a waiver wire acquisition in his late 20s that's having a career year in a contract year, over performing on a team with no expectations. He hopes to flip that into a multi year deal at a significant raise to his current value. Give me 3 years at $1.25M, get a first for Walker, make a serious run at moving Ristolainen and we can talk. That's a stAsHabLe deal. I know you like his shot blocking. He had two nice blocks during the four minute PK the other day. It's a valuable skill. But leading the league means you're giving up an awful lot of shots and we know this because we've seen it happen for the Flyers before. Andrew MacDonald was coming off a four year $550k deal when Homer sent a 2nd and 3rd to the Islanders and extended him for SIX YEARS AT FIVE MILLION PER. If you wanted a clinic on how to give up the blue line and then "block a shot" you, too, could lead the league. Seeler's primary value for the Flyers rightnow is the asset he can return, which c/should be flipped for other assets. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, radoran said: Seeler's primary value for the Flyers rightnow is the asset he can return, which c/should be flipped for other assets. ....and Bingo was his name-OH! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 17 hours ago, radoran said: But leading the league means you're giving up an awful lot of shots and we know this because we've seen it happen for the Flyers before. this is silly. You know who else led the Flyers in shot blocking? Kimmo, Pronger…pretty decent D-men . Yes the one guy who was not a good d-man for the Flyers….though he was okay with the Isles paired with Hamonic- not great but okay. I’m blanking on his name….anyway you know who I mean…MacDonald? The rest of your post I agree Seeler’s best value to the Flyers is a trade asset. And I like your proposal if he does get extended. I thought maybe you saw zero value to him with the Flyers … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 39 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: this is silly. You know who else led the Flyers in shot blocking? Kimmo, Pronger…pretty decent D-men . not leading the team - leading the league. Again, it's a valuable asset. It does not in and of itself mean the player is a truly effective defenceman. Timonen and Pronger excelled at a high level, consistently, for years at multiple aspects of the position. Nick Seeler is - again - having a career year at 30. That's a reason Timonen had played 493 NHL games and was captain of an NHL team at age 30 and Seeler is at 287 having played for three at the same age. I don't at all "hate the player" any more than I overvalue him or his contributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 19 hours ago, flyercanuck said: ....and Bingo was his name-OH! Won’t bother me to see Seeler or Staal go. Staal’s biggest drawback is he is old enough to have fathered half of this philly line up….Seeler has played games full of brilliance followed by an equal number of boneheaded ones. His shot blocking is his strong point but how many times is that because of him being out of position to make a true defensive play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 @radoran Kimmo and Pronger weren’t all that far off of Seeler…then again I haven’t looked at Seeler’s total lately. Anyway I hear ya there’s a difference… I guess the only value I see in Seeler that perhaps you don’t is the old intangibles…i know they’re easy to make fun of…and of course the Flyers will survive and continue to grow w/out him. But everything I hear tells me he’s been a big part - a big reason- for the attitude adjustment amongst the roster this year. Not saying keep him at whatever cost…hardly….but his leadership, the way he plays should be factored in that’s all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 15 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: @radoran Kimmo and Pronger weren’t all that far off of Seeler…then again I haven’t looked at Seeler’s total lately. Anyway I hear ya there’s a difference… I guess the only value I see in Seeler that perhaps you don’t is the old intangibles…i know they’re easy to make fun of…and of course the Flyers will survive and continue to grow w/out him. But everything I hear tells me he’s been a big part - a big reason- for the attitude adjustment amongst the roster this year. Not saying keep him at whatever cost…hardly….but his leadership, the way he plays should be factored in that’s all. Again, don't at all hate the player. I'm just worried they overvalue him. I just don't think his intangibles are worth more than the tangibles they might acquire for him. Long term view. Short term thinking is that they need him to make the playoffs this year. After all, anything can happen. Make the playoffs this year, see it as a positive, guys got experience, definitely a playoff team next year! Lather. Rinse. Repeat. I wouldn't include a 30 year old journeyman defenceman who just had a career year in a contract year as a multi-year piece of my rebuild. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 2 hours ago, flyerrod said: Won’t bother me to see Seeler or Staal go. Staal’s biggest drawback is he is old enough to have fathered half of this philly line up….Seeler has played games full of brilliance followed by an equal number of boneheaded ones. His shot blocking is his strong point but how many times is that because of him being out of position to make a true defensive play. Seeler would be a great pickup for a team looking to make a long playoff run...which we are not. As mentioned, his value is in the asset(s) that he can bring back. Same with Walker. Sign a couple more 30ish dmen on short term contracts and repeat the process next year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 28 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Seeler would be a great pickup for a team looking to make a long playoff run...which we are not. As mentioned, his value is in the asset(s) that he can bring back. Same with Walker. Sign a couple more 30ish dmen on short term contracts and repeat the process next year. One of the very few this ol' Fletch did right. Then he used the assets terribly but he did trade Braun twice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 3 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: But everything I hear tells me he’s been a big part - a big reason- for the attitude adjustment amongst the roster this year. This would be the saddest indictment of a sports franchise ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmc687 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 On 2/29/2024 at 9:08 AM, RonJeremy said: As far as the story has never been proven…Richard’s got pinched at the border with a crap load of Oxys and was out of hockey at 28, so it looks like they were accurate with Richard’s. Carter had a long productive career, so maybe his partying wasn’t so bad . So maybe they won the Richard’s trade but lost the Carter trade. Dont forget there were rumours Carter slept w Hartnells wife...it made sense the Flyers moved on, but trading Tippett would be a bad look in my opinion. Team is much more fragile right now...A #5 OA pick just publicly refused to play/sign for the Flyers...a defenseman just blocked a trade to not come to Philly...lots of high profile FA dont even look in Philly direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) On 2/29/2024 at 3:08 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I met Mike Richards once after a game in Toronto and quite honestly, he was the most miserable millionaire at the time. I think everything gets amped up in Philadelphia and he hated being under the microscope. It certainly didn't help that he and Pronger did not like each other at all. I met him too at a “Meet the team” event and he was my favorite player at the time. While I wasn’t expecting him to become my best friend, he could have uttered at least a word or 2. I was trying to tell him how much we appreciated his hard work and was thanking him for signing my stuff and he didn’t say a thing and barely looked at me. It was a bit disappointing as most players I’ve met at least treated me like a fellow human being . Edited March 9 by Poulin20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 8 hours ago, hmc687 said: Team is much more fragile right now...A #5 OA pick just publicly refused to play/sign for the Flyers...a defenseman just blocked a trade to not come to Philly...lots of high profile FA dont even look in Philly direction. I think this has some merit especially with a polarizing coach who seems pretty well entrenched. Certain guys aren't going to want to sign up for his program. See Hayes, Kevin and Johansen, Ryan. I'd also like to add, **** that gnat-****-with-a girl's-name-whiny-bitch-defenceman. We just wanted to use him as a salary dump anyway. He can fuxk all the way off forever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 11 hours ago, hmc687 said: a defenseman just blocked a trade to not come to Philly I must be having a brain cramp or else I missed this entirely... what's this all about please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: I must be having a brain cramp or else I missed this entirely... what's this all about please? It was Tori Krug who used his NMC to block a trade to the Flyers for Sanhiem last summer. It's nothing current or new, but did happen. His team sucks but at least he and Haysey can get good barbeque together . Those miserable bastards 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Oh right last summer I remember now thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 17 hours ago, mojo1917 said: It was Tori Krug who used his NMC to block a trade to the Flyers for Sanhiem last summer. It's nothing current or new, but did happen. His team sucks but at least he and Haysey can get good barbeque together . Those miserable bastards Looking at Krug's play this year, and I realize the Blues not being great defensively or scoring a lot offensively, isn't all on him...but a -27 is in fact, that. The Flyers not trading Sanheim for him, was the right decision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, FD19372 said: Looking at Krug's play this year, and I realize the Blues not being great defensively or scoring a lot offensively, isn't all on him...but a -27 is in fact, that. The Flyers not trading Sanheim for him, was the right decision. Well, it was Krugs decision not to come. Glad it didn't happen, and I was at the time. But it wasn't a "right" decision, it just worked out in our favor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: Well, it was Krugs decision not to come. Glad it didn't happen, and I was at the time. But it wasn't a "right" decision, it just worked out in our favor. To be clear, the reported deal was Hayes and Sanheim for Krug and the Blues's first round pick in 2024. Which would you like more: a third first rounder in this year's draft or six more years of Travis Sanheim? Floor's yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 5 minutes ago, radoran said: Which would you like more: a third first rounder in this year's draft or six more years of Travis Sanheim? If the choice is being made last year I'd take the pick. A late-round 1st plus Krug isn't a great haul but it looked better than Sanheim was looking last year. I knew that was because of his partner, at least a large part of it. But the reason doesn't matter; making the deal would've been the right thing to do. But with hindsight I'd stick with Sanheim. The work he did last summer on his own plus getting him away from Ristolainen - it's almost like the Flyers got a new D-man this year. He'll never be a "true #1" or a "stud D-man" but he and York have done a fine job as top pair. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 10 hours ago, radoran said: To be clear, the reported deal was Hayes and Sanheim for Krug and the Blues's first round pick in 2024. Which would you like more: a third first rounder in this year's draft or six more years of Travis Sanheim? Floor's yours. I'd prefer to keep Sanheim...but as mentioned, it wasn't like it was a wise decision by Flyer management.... Krug shot it down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmc687 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Sanheim gets way too much flak...he's a solid top 4 defenseman who can operate as a top pair in a pinch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Trading Carter and Schenn were maybe worst trades your Flyers ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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