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Time to play GM...... aka What to do now?


pilldoc
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Yes, it is that time every spring were we, the armchair GM's of this board, get to play GM.  As disheartening as it was to lose last night, most of us on here recognize the serious deficiency's this team has.  Along that note, many on here also realize this team was not built for a SCF run this year.  So the primary goal of this thread is to:

  1. Figure out what went wrong this year
  2. How to fix this team moving forward (aka...what moves would you do)
  3. What were the bright spots during the season?

What were some of the bright spots this year?

  • First the good news! We found a goaltender.  Mason, simply put, was a bright spot this season.  Yeah, there were some rough patches, but during the last 2 games of the playoffs, Mason is what the kept the Flyers in the game. 
  • Also, after a rough start, I think I really like Berube as a coach.  It seems that, for at least the time being, that this team responds to him. 
  • Giroux was 3rd this in points.  I think he is slowly but surely learning how to be a NHL captain. (I still think he was given the C to early, but that has been discussed ad nauseam  in another thread.)
  • This team had either 7 or 8 players that scored 20+ goals.  It was also astutely pointed out that the majority of these goals were scored via the PP.
  • Acquiring MacDonald?  He seemed to steady the defense a bit.  At best a 2nd pair D-man.
  • There was a bright spot when during the stretch right before and right after the Olympic break, they were skating with and beating some of the top teams.  Where did that team go?
  • There is a core of players here for which to build around. (G, Jake, Simmer, Coots)  But is it enough?
  • There appears to be help on the way for the defense in the form of Ghost, Morin, Haag, Alt.  How they develop at the NHL level is yet to be seen.
  • Raffl appears to be a diamond in the rough.  I love this kids energy.  For the most part played very well when called upon.
  • Akeson? Another diamond in the rough?

 

So what went wrong this year? 

  • For starters, the horrendous start to season has a big fat bulls-eye for most of us.  You simply CANNOT start the season at 4-10-1.  That alone cost the Flyers valuable points.  Now was this due because of an absolutely brutal training camp or were the players simply tuning out Lavy and then had to learn to adjust/learn a new system under Berube aka "The Chief"?
  • Giroux!  He got off to an absolute putrid start.  Yes, I know he rebounded and was playing very well near the end of the season. However, as has been discussed before in other threads, as Giroux goes, so goes the Flyers.  At times this team did step it up when Giroux went AWOL in the scoring department and at times they did respond.  This simply cannot happen.
  • Blue Line - Blue Line - Blue Line - Blue Line!  Have I said it enough.  Where to begin?  Kimmo, love the guy, but he has seriously lost a step.  Coburn, had a decent season, but was absolutely brutal during the PO. L. Schenn? Ok I think most of agree he is a failed project.  When he puts forth the effort he is a decent player, BUT the keep concept is when he puts forth the effort.  Streit?  Better than I thought but he is 35+. Grossman / Gus.  At best 2nd and 3rd parings.  Gil?  Why the hell was he even on the team?  Too old and too slow and sat in the booth most of the time getting beer and peanuts for Homer/Snider.  MacDonald.  The defense seemed to be better when he arrived and Mez was shipped out..  This team simply does not have a top pair D-man tandem.
  • For whatever reason, this team forgets how to skate.
  • Turnovers!  Especially during the PO. The amount of TO this team produces is sickening.  Constantly giving the other team more time in the zone.
  • Penalties!  This team takes way too many stupid penalties.
  • VLC.  Again I digress.  Why was he brought here?  This was the WRONG signing for this team. 

 

So now for the fun part....the crux of this thread.  How to fix these issues and what moves as GM do you make?

 

For starters ....who do you keep?

  • Forwards: Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek, B. Schenn (move him?), Couturier, Raffl, Read, Rinaldo, Akeson, Hartnell (sadly because of that contract, there is no way to move him), Lecavalier (see note on Hartnell)
  • Defenseman: Coburn (he was a liability during the Po, but you can't get rid of everyone at once), Streit, MacDonald, Grossman, Gustafsson
  • Goalie: Mason

Show them the door:  Gil, Downine, Rosehill, Timonen (look I love the guy, but his time has passed)

On the fence: Emery, Hall, McGinn, L. Schenn

 

Contract wise. 

  • B. Schenn is a RFA, do you tender him an offer, or do you let him test the market and see what type of compensation you get for him. 
  • Resign Akeson.
  • Do you resign Emery? or do you give Heeter a chance in training camp to win the 2nd spot? or Stolarz?
  • Resign Hall?

 

UFA for Next Year:

  • Vanek (MTL) - I think he is the only one I would target.  He might be able to give you a 2nd legit playmaker to take some of the pressure off of Giroux.
  • I did not like any of the D-Man UFA's.

Line Combos:

 

Forwards:

  • Raffl - Giroux - Voracek
  • Vanek - VLC - Simmonds
  • Akeson - Couturier - Read
  • Hartnell - Laughton - Rinaldo

Yes, move Hartnell down if we move B. Schenn and acquire Vanek.  Bring up Laughton.  Have McGinn as extra.

Thinking outside the box, what if you move VLC back down to the 4th line, move Coots to 2nd.  Could Coots play with Vanek and Simmer?  Also, do you think Laughton could play 3rd line center or would it be too much responsibility?  Like I said, just thinking outside the box here.

 

Blue Line:  (this is where it gets dicey)

  • Coburn - L. Schenn (yeah I know, not a true top paring but that is all we have if we let Kimmo walk, also see if you can move Schenn)
  • Streit - Lauridsen (so he can learn from Streit - bring the kid up - let him learn at the NHL level now)
  • Grossman - MacDonald

Extra: Gus / Ghost (give him a chance to make the team.  He probably won't but then he will be in the AHL)

Give Morin and Haag a shot to see what they can contribute, but still a year or two away. Alt a 1st call up?

 

Goalies:

  • Mason
  • Emery (if you resign him)
  • Heeter or Stolarz to fightout back-up if Emery not resigned

Bottom line this team will probably make the playoffs again next year, but is still a year or tow away from a serious cup run.  Try to move Harnell / LVC / B. Schenn if possible.  I know with the contracts of Hartnell and LVC, that will be damm near impossible.  While your at it, see if you can move L. Schenn too.

 

Management :  Time to hand the reigns from Homer to Hexy.  Sorry, Homer, you might be able to find talent, but you don't know how to manage the cap and contracts very well.

 

Anyway...those are my thought for now.  I have the right to change my mind! :)

 

Let's hear yours...........

Edited by pilldoc
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Harnell / LVC / B. Schenn 

 

Heard someone refer to them, if they were put on the same line, as the "Legion of Gloom"

 

Great post..agree with most of it.

 

LOL...Legion of Gloom ...LOL

thanks for the chuckle...however...as sad as it seems...pretty true

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Well, that was one hell of a post PILL. Can't say I disagree on much of any of it, if at all. I just think we need to play the kids more next year. I'm NOT talking about a rebuild, just get youth and speed, especially on the Blue Line. The ONLY way we can get Vanek is if we can get someone (anyone) to take either Harts or VLC's contract from us, which is a pipe dream.. Yes, it is time for Hexy to take over. Good post.

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Raffl is not a 1st line player. I like the guy and hope to God he doesn't fizzle out after a nice surprise of a season, and I really believe a good role player is important (especially if you can get them young), but that delusion needs to stop. Berube needs to stop putting him with Giroux and fans need to stop thinking he belongs there. He doesn't. I think you could have a really nice 3rd and 4th lines if you spread out Couturier, Read, Raffle, and Akeson (who absolutely makes this team until he proves he doesn't belong there) if I'm in charge.

 

Could Couturier play with Simmonds and Vanek? Absolutely not. As good as he is in so many areas of the game, his offense is downright non-existent at times. He had 0 points in the playoffs. 0. This after he went 20 something games without a goal and something like 2 assists in that time span. Love him as a role player, but he has no offensive game. 

 

1st thing I do if I'm the GM is sit down with the coach and tell him to stop juggling the God damn lines so much. Raffl, Vinny, and Schenn were bounced around - not only on different lines, but positions - so much, it's no wonder some of these guys can't develop any consistency.

 

The team's biggest needs are defense and a 1st line winger.

 

They ideally need a few defensemen, but let's be real, it'll be hard to get just 1. Plus, if you get one that's good enough, they can make up for a lot. Pronger took a team that only played half the time, and had a Cinderella story goalie, to the Cup. There aren't enough words to describe that kind of importance a player like that has to a team. If they only do one more this off season, this should be it. And when I say defenseman, I mean a guy who can actually play defense. I don't want any more of these "good in the transition game" type of guys. If we can a guy that has good offense, great, but he needs to be capable in his own end first.

 

Voracek and Simmonds could arguably be Giroux's linemates, but I'd like to spread the wealth a little and keep Simmonds on the 2nd line. I'd love to see a big body on the 1st line with Giroux and Voracek.

Speaking of size, this team is a little small. They got bullied by the Rangers. Ideally, you address that too.

 

I wouldn't bother with Rinaldo. They don't play him when it matters anyway. I'd rather try and fill out the 4th line with guys like Couturier, Raffl, or even Akeson. Hell, I'd take Hall over Rinaldo. I would resign Timonen for a year if he was willing to play for less and they realized he'd be best as a 4-6. I would move Coburn and Schenn, but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

Laughton, Ghost, Heeter, and all these other kids names being tossed around are not the answer. This team needs some veterans. Fill in the roster with those kids (if they even make it) over the next several years, but the last thing this team needs is more inexperience. Giroux and Mason need some help, not more guys that can't help them.

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I just think we need to play the kids more next year. I'm NOT talking about a rebuild, just get youth and speed, especially on the Blue Line.

 

That is what I wanted this year! However, there are some on here that argued against that train of thought.  Don't get me wrong it was nice to make the playoffs, but I knew this team simply was not built for a long run yet.  with hindsight being 20/20, maybe it was a good thing we were matched up with the Rags instead of the Pens. 

 

We all wanted the Pens and knew we matched up well with them.  Also we have done very well against them the past 2 or 3 years.  What would have been  proven if we did play the Pens in the 1st round and won.  That we can beat the Pens?  We know we can do that.  It is how you play against teams you don't match up well with or have a hard time beating that is worth using as a measuring stick IMO. 

 

The Rags simply exposed what our weaknesses are.  Nothing wrong with that.  I just did not like HOW we lost by not skating for a full 60 minutes. Sometimes teams just have to go through growing pains.

 

Bottom line, I agree, gets faster on blue line and play the kids.  If the kids pan out, the future does look bright with the likes of Ghost / Morin / Haag / Alt.

Edited by pilldoc
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I'll give it a go Doc.

 

Everything below doesn't consider NTC/NMC.  You can make players WANT a trade.

 

Available for trades for picks, decent return or let walk if at all possible:  Hartnell, VLC, Timonen** (see below)

Available for only the right return:  Hall, Rinaldo, 1 of either B.Schenn or Laughton, 1 of either Akeson, Raffl, McGinn or Read (have to give to get)

Keep:  Giroux, Jake, Simmonds, Couturier, Coburn, MacD, Streit, Mason

 

Needs in order of importance:

1) First line left winger.  

  • Power forward with play making ability.  Young & fast.  I know it's asking for a lot and Homer will have to give up a lot to get this but it's been said over and over again:  As Giroux goes, the Flyers go.  Get him a young stud winger that can make plays and finish, and watch that line flurish for the next 5-10 years.  Use either B.Schenn or Laughton as your center piece and fill in the holes with Read/Akeson/Raffl/McGinn, prospect or picks to get this done.  The role players (Raffl/Akeson...) are NOT the long term answer.
     
  • B. Schenn is young.  Let's not forget that when fans yell for him to be traded.   He is just 22 years old.  However, Laughton is ready now.  B.Schenn or Laughton need to be moved to get that first line winger.  It's decision time and it's going to hurt either way but the Flyers are flush with centers as usual and now is the time to get this done. 

 

2) Defense. 

  • We have a lot of young dmen that are going to start coming into the NHL in the next 1-4 years.  GrossmanN, Coburn, MacD, Streit, Schenn plus one or two of the young guys is okay to start the season with. Lots of young guys coming up and you have to make space for them even if it means you have a hole or two for a little while.
     
  • If Timonen wants to play another year, he needs to not sign until the trade deadline and come back at minimum salary.  He can't play full season plus playoffs any more.  Adding him at the trade deadline will allow him to get into game shape and ready for the playoffs but keep him fresh and ready.
     
  • Gustafsson.  They need to **** or get off the pot with him.  Either play him or trade him.  He is wasting away serving popcorn. 

3) Goalie.

  • Mason starts and Heeter is your backup.  Stolarz is waiting for when Heeter fails.

 

That's all I would do to this team this year.    It's an extremely young team with even younger quality propects coming up in the next few years.  Let them meld together for a change.  Let them learn together.

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I'd start by trying to move VLC at any cost. He does not fit anything this team needs. I'd qualify Schenn, but nowhere near where he'd like to be.  Couturier is fine but needs a better winger to play with him. I'd move Read off that line and try him with Simmer and Schenn. I'd try and trade for an actual sniper to play with Giroux. 

 

Defense is what it is and it's not going anywhere since they all basically are locked in for life.. grrrr

 

Emery has done what has been asked of him, and I'd seriously evaluate Heeter next season. 

 

Mason is a breath of fresh air. He is what this team has been missing for years. 

 

I'd hate to dog VLC, but he just does not fit at all on this team.

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Yes, it is that time every spring were we, the armchair GM's of this board, get to play GM.

 

 

TRADE ALL THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry just don't feel like this topic today i will come around but don't let me ruin everyone elses fun. I'll jump in later....

Edited by OccamsRazor
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Ok i'll play i found this i didn't create it but i like it a lot is it possible not sure but its a good start on paper...so here goes...

 

FORWARDS

Matt Moulson ($6.000m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($2.250m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Jason Akeson ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) 

DEFENSEMEN

Matt Niskanen ($6.000m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Robert Hagg ($0.925m) 

GOALTENDERS

Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Chad Johnson ($0.600m)

BUYOUTS

Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)

LTIR

Chris Pronger ($4.941m)

RETAINED SALARIES (1.58% of upper limit)

Vincent Lecavalier ($1.125m—25.00%)

 

 

Ok what say you....like i said a lot i'm not sure is possible but its a start!!!!!

Edited by OccamsRazor
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We need to become more mobile on the blue line, so that means making some changes there and we need a top line winger, a finisher with a stone cold killer heart like that little Danny Briere whom I know was a C but that little bastard could find the back of the net.  

 

I would be fine in moving one of our young centerman to return a young defensman, B Schenn and a pick for Seth Jones ?   

I would be looking for teams that are anemic offensively that need some forward help and have some prospects on defense. PHX and NSH come to mind readily.

Too bad Dale Tallon is in Florida they have some pieces that might fit here, but he's too shrewd to do something borderline stupid. and I that's what I think we need , we need a Coburn for a month of zhitnik or Hartnell and Timmonen for Footpa,  if we can swing something like that then see you later young centerpiece centerman.

 

Laughton is vapor.  he has had one ... one mega productive year in jr, as an overage player.  For those banking on him stepping into the NHL and becoming the second coming of Mike Richards quit hogging the pot, he will experience growing pains and people will be pining for whomever we traded away as they will now be the best thing ever, while we're stuck with him.

 

 i think small moves can make the team better, Niskanen from Pgh might be workable, a trade for a young blue chip defensive prospect, and let Hagg, Ghotisbehere  Alt and Morin see some NHL time and things might be better.  Our overall lack of speed and poise from the defense corp was hard to take especially when playing teams like CBJ and  NYR, anything that can be done to help our "quicks" would be welcome.

Edited by mojo1917
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The 1st decision that needs to be made is what is the goal of this franchise. To me it appears that the goal each year is to limp into the playoffs, get a couple of home gate receipts, draft poorly and repeat. Then July 1st sign the biggest, slowest UFAs and repeat. If the goal is to win the Stanley Cup then there needs to be a serious shift in the culture in Flyerland. Right now it is a country club for ex Flyers with no accountability on anyone but the coach. How else do you explain getting outshot 18-5 in the 2nd period of GAME FREAKING 7. There needs to be an expectation of excellence, effort, respect, team work and commitment, by the players, the coaches, the GM, the scouts and the owner. I don't see it at any level right now. As for the players on the current roster, they are really not as bad as we all think, they just don't support each other on the ice as well as needed. They do skate without the puck, they do not work to be available to a teammate in trouble, they do not play as a five man unit. Boston, Chicago, Detroit, these are the systems that work, no dead wood, no laziness. Keep all the kids, give them one more year to develop and grow up, but gas all the 30plus slow movers.

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RFAs:

 

Schenn, Brayden - Trade

 

McGinn, Tye -walk

 

Akeson, Jason -resign

 

Gustafsson, Erik -resign

 

Heeter, Cal  -resign

 

Flanagan, Kyle  -resign 

 

 Konan, Matthew -walk

 

 Brown, Tyler -walk

 

Manning, Brandon-resign

 

 Bourdon, M.-walk

 

 Eddy, Cullen -walk

 

Hostetter, Tyler -walk

 

UFAs:

 

Hall, Adam  -resign

 

Downie, Steve -walk

 

Timonen, Kimmo -resign

 

Gill, Ha l-walk

 

Emery, Ray -walk

 

 Gervais, Bruno -walk

 

 Danis, Yann -walk

 

 Newbury, Kris  -walk

 

 Holmstrom, Ben- resign

 

VandeVelde, Chris -walk

 

Just a quick rough over view with no money or cost laid out.

Edited by OccamsRazor
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Flyers could use my boy Z.   Buffalo stunk with him in or out of the lineup, but as Ted Nolan repeated often, he brought life to that team. 

 

Drive and enthusiasm are essential building blocks for contenders.    

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<grunch= haven't read most of the thread>

 

I'm gonna go after Matt Moulson in FA to wing our Top line. $5m AAV-ish? Only other F moves are to re-sign Akeson to short deal $900k? Schenn re-sign short as possible for about $2m AAV. All other's walk. 

 

VLC or Hartnell need to go. One of them has to go to make my moves. I'm letting Timo retire(or whatever) and bringing up Ghost.  I'm totally gonna dick over Pitt by overpaying for Niskanen. I think he'd be a good $$$ gamble though. $5m for Nisk. btw, Pitt is in for a world of hurt after this season with all their $$ committed and UFA's, just to fill the F position will be interesting. They can't afford Orpik AND Niskanen, IMO... so we 'steal' Nisk by offering more than Pitt can afford. Worst case, he signs somewhere else for more money.. either way... Pitt can't keep him.  IF that plan fails, I beg Timo for one more year at $2.5m and have Hagg on a 2-way(if not already? if possible?) I'm also re-signing Gus to a short-term $1.5 AAV.  

 

Re-sign Emery to backup Mason. He made $1.65m last year, would he take about the same amount? If not, Vokoun is UFA and could probably be had for about $1.5m? maybe?

 

This has us under the cap by almost $3m after LTIR Prongs. 

 

Lines are as follows: 

 

F

 

M.Moulson($5m), G($8.275m), Vor($4.25m)

Hartnell($4.75m), Schenn($2m), Simmer($3.975m)

Raffl($1.1m), Cooter($1.75m), Read($3.625m)

Rino($750k), Laughton($863k), Akeson($900k)

 

= about $37.25m cap hit for 2015

 

D

 

Streit($5.25m), MacD($5m)

Schenn($3.6m), Niskanen($5m)

GrossmanN($3.5m), Ghost/Gus($925k/$1.5m)

 

= about $25m cap hit for 2015

 

G

 

Mason($4.1m), Emery$1.85m)

= about $6m

 

total: $68.25m for 21 players with Prongs on LTIR

 

of course… i'm dreaming out loud here. 

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Ok i'll play i found this i didn't create it but i like it a lot is it possible not sure but its a good start on paper...so here goes...

 

FORWARDS

Matt Moulson ($6.000m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)

Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($2.250m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)

Jason Akeson ($1.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)

Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m)

Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) 

DEFENSEMEN

Matt Niskanen ($6.000m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)

Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)

Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)

Robert Hagg ($0.925m) 

GOALTENDERS

Steve Mason ($4.100m)

Chad Johnson ($0.600m)

BUYOUTS

Daniel Briere ($0.000m)

Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)

LTIR

Chris Pronger ($4.941m)

RETAINED SALARIES (1.58% of upper limit)

Vincent Lecavalier ($1.125m—25.00%)

 

 

Ok what say you....like i said a lot i'm not sure is possible but its a start!!!!!

 

 

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For Bak a couple post ahead of your some of the guys you mentioned just differing salaries!!!!!!!!!!!

 

One i don't agree with and like my suggestion better/cheaper....Emery....go with Johnson instead.

Edited by OccamsRazor
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Flyers could use my boy Z.   Buffalo stunk with him in or out of the lineup, but as Ted Nolan repeated often, he brought life to that team. 

 

Drive and enthusiasm are essential building blocks for contenders.

I can totally see him adding a nice dimension to the team I like his speed and skill at top speed which reminds me of Crosby.

Is Buffalo committed to him?

Seems like with all their picks and stuff that he'd be looking down the barrel of being on a bad team for 3-4 more years or he could come and make our team a legit threat to do damage in the playoffs. Talk to him Blocker, get the ball rolling...he is a nice player. :-)

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Sometimes the moves/trades never made are the best moves. Do not touch this team too much. Vinny needs to go. Eat half his salary if need be. But open that center spot for schenn full time. Let him actually play his position for a full season before we throw him away. Hartnell? He stays. Besides him and Simmonds we have no size. Eaten alive by Boston. People who wants harts gone are just looking at points , not what else he brings. Wake up people. Trade him you better have another power forward coming back like Ryan. Love hall. But if we can get Laughton in the line up, I like him on the forth line. Work his way in. Rafl and Rinaldo would be good wingers for him. For the forward group all that's missing is a second line winger . I'm not sure who you plug is there. Reid? Maybe a ufa? Trade? Not sure.

On d comes the most shocking moves I have in store. Keep it the same and bring in some more youth. Kimmo needs to go though, unless at a severely reduced salary and roster position. Morin,ghost,alt need to be given the chance to take a or some spots. Perfect world ghost and morin are ready.

Bottom line. My youth stays and that's what I build around. Because in this league now you have to have youth in your line up.

Sure if I could get weber for like Laughton and a 1st and Gus I would take it. Lol

Edited by Jmdodgesrt4
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Trade Coburn to Edmonton for whatever we can take them for.

Maybe they have a centerman? :-p

I see him as one on the lesser issues to be addressed.

Is Ales Hemsky still out there ? Is he worth a risk ? I have heard he's not real great in the locker room . He has skill...

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