giroux for weber

[Jam1986]

Well if trade happens what could we get for fingers!

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

 

 Haha, I'd already edited my post regarding defencemens worth (and Nashvilles eternal lack of an elite forward). For a guy who used to argue Letang vs Weber you've really come around when it's Giroux vs Weber. (and there's no way in hell I'd trade Giroux for Letang)

 

 If a gm thinks something would help his team win and spite prevents him from doing it, he should be fired. And in spite of several offer sheets by many different teams over the years, there's still not a single gm who's acted out of spite. Not one.

 

 

I've never argued that Weber is the better OVERALL defenseman.  I just think Letang's skating makes him better at transitioning and offense.  My point about the spite issue is simply that Poile could approach any number of teams in the league for star power in exchange for Weber.  I find it hard to believe Philly would be his preference since Holmgren put him in the position he's in.  I can agree with the position to help his team firing and all that... I just don't think exchanging Weber for Giroux helps his team.  I think it hurts it.  

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

 

 It goes both ways. I doubt Philly wants to trade their star player and highest scoring NHLer over the past 4 years (I think). If Poile wanted to trade his star defenceman for a forward, Giroux would be near the top of his list, or he's an idiot. Period.

 

 Again, I'm not saying either team does this, but they certainly have equal value.

[J0e Th0rnton]

 Don't cry over spilled milk - even if it leaves a dairy air about it.

 

 Burned his last bridge? He hasn't burned his first bridge yet. Did he hurt anyone? Were charges laid? He made a stupid mistake most people have done in similiar fashion when they're in their 20s. I can see way worse every Saturday night downtown.

 

 Think Chicago wishes they got rid of Kane after a lot worse than this, and even more drunken embarrassments?

I agree. It's not like he was caught DUI or anything major. I am still going to heckle mercilessly over it

[flyercanuck]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

 As I'd expect most opposing players and fanbases to do. This is something to laugh at him about, not ostrasize.

[Bertmega]

No offense but this is by far the dumbest $hit I have read all summer. Fisrt off G is human and had too much to drink. This is a non-story. Second, what player is going to want to sign a contract with the Flyers if there is a risk of being shipped out before it kicks in?

If this were the regular season maybe this would be a bigger issue, but it was the off season and it was Canada Day. Next moving along...

[sarsippius]

@Polaris922

It goes both ways.

Er, so does Claude?

[flyercanuck]

No offense but this is by far the dumbest $hit I have read all summer. 

 

 

Ya, but it's early...

[King Knut]

Throw in VLC and they'll be sure to take it!

We need our captain busy hands and all. Last year proved his value to this team. They go as he goes. He is the heart of this team. Weber would help some things we'd lack but losin G would hurt a few things we currently have. It would balance out as a wash. This is silly.

Super far fetched. Nashville doesn't take that deal.

[ruxpin]

@Vanflyer

I was incorrect in thinking Weber's cap hit was higher. The big numbers were his bonuses. It's still not happening. Weber is their cornerstone. They just gave him $24 million in bonuses BECAUSE of the Flyers right? And Giroux is a great talent, but Weber is more vital to the Preds than Giroux would be. Both as a player and as a marketing point.

Add this one to the never ending we want Weber bullsharts...

 

 

My knee jerk was to agree.   I still think the reality is that this will never happen.  

 

But just to entertain the thought for a second:    Weber is vital to the Preds.  No doubt about it.  If that weren't true, they wouldn't have mortgaged everything to match the Flyers' offer sheet.

 

But with Seth Jones in the fold and with some other pretty good defensive prospects, and with nothing really on their front end, it might make sense on a certain level.   I mean, they hire an offense-first/what's defense? coach with no offense and a boatload of defense.    Maybe it makes a little sense.

 

But say you make this trade.   Nashville gets it's first line center.  It loses it's premier defensemen, but it has a stable of others.     In the meantime, the Flyers get the premier defenseman but have literally nothing up front.   "Oh, we can just go draft it" or "we can replace it in free agency."   Free agency?   The equivalent of Giroux?   Even if you're going just for a fill-in, you, for the most part, just replaced cap with cap in the trade and the Flyers have no space now.  Where is even the 4th line free agent coming from, let alone the first line center replacement??  It ain't happening.

 

Draft one?   You just traded for the premier defenseman for what purpose?  To make the team suck a little less while you wait for the draft pick--not currently in our system--to grow hair in his special places?  C'mon.

 

This whole idea is DUMB.  Can we please take down the super-sized posters of Weber and get on with life?

[Bakanekimiwa]

I dunno maybe its just me, but aside from a never ending string of jokes, is this a huge deal? I don't know why he did what he did, but in the grand scheme of things....

 

Well, it might not be. But, then again... it might. Alcohol is a very slippery slope that anyone who drinks is on. You might be at the top of the slide now, but it's very easy to fall in. I am a little bit concerned tbh. G had that 'golf' episode last year... we might now guess that a few drinks were imbibed at the time. I mean... does a rational human break his club and his wrist while playing golf? 

 

I think, that if the Flyers are smart, they will be encouraging G to get some private counseling now. butt gate... this could just be an isolated incident... but it might also be a sign that G is headed down a bad path. 

[Mad Dog]

Yes they would. They already attempted it. And Hextalls moto is defense first (which I agree with). You get the primeire defensemen for premeire forward. I would do it, but I just don't like the years on the contract. 

 Well, that's a differerence of opinion, I guess.  Obvioulsy, Weber is a premier d-man... perhaps even the best right now.  Nobody would ever argue that.  The problem with trading G away is a sudden void created on the offense.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul rarely works.  Nashville is the living example - they *do* have Weber and nothing else. 

 

I just don't see what good can possibly come from trading a 90-point forward.  Sorry.

[flyercanuck]

 Well, that's a differerence of opinion, I guess.  Obvioulsy, Weber is a premier d-man... perhaps even the best right now.  Nobody would ever argue that.  The problem with trading G away is a sudden void created on the offense.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul rarely works.  Nashville is the living example - they *do* have Weber and nothing else. 

 

I just don't see what good can possibly come from trading a 90-point forward.  Sorry.

 

So what about kidnapping Weber?

[Mad Dog]

So what about kidnapping Weber?

 

I am all for it!  Let's do it.

[Vanflyer]

Giroux just came 3rd in Hart voting. I think his value is equal. Giroux isn't our cornerstone? 
 
 I'm not saying it should or would happen (and him being drunk has zero effect on it) but Claude Giroux is every bit as valuable as Shea Weber, and vice versa. The one way i could see more value in Weber is great defencemen are harder to come by. Unless you're Nashville, then it's great forwards.

 

You and I are on the same page. Of course an offenseman of his caliber are more flashy and sells tickets v. a weber. So, from a business stand point, you have to stay status quo.

[Vanflyer]

Well, that's a differerence of opinion, I guess.  Obvioulsy, Weber is a premier d-man... perhaps even the best right now.  Nobody would ever argue that.  The problem with trading G away is a sudden void created on the offense.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul rarely works.  Nashville is the living example - they *do* have Weber and nothing else. 
 
I just don't see what good can possibly come from trading a 90-point forward.  Sorry.

 

Nashvilles problems have nothing to do with weber. While his cap hit is significant, it is a far cry from the straw that broke the camels back. For whatever reason, Nashvilles problem has always been offence- since their inception. Maybe its Trotz thing, but I am not so sure. I think its a personnel thing. Maybe under Lavy the culture can change. 

 

As for a 90 pt forward v a weber, its a wash. I don't do it because its more entertaining for me to watch a G v. a weber, thought I can respect both aspects of the game and their impacts. While we do not have a weber in our system, we certainly have a couple of players that will be fun to watch (hopefully), on the defensive side. I hope its not before all my hair is grey. 

[Vanflyer]

So what about kidnapping Weber?

 

ok, but where do you hide him?? 

[ruxpin]

ok, but where do you hide him?? 

 

NOT in an Ottawa bar, apparently.

[Mad Dog]

@Vanflyer

 

Nashvilles problems have nothing to do with weber. While his cap hit is significant, it is a far cry from the straw that broke the camels back. For whatever reason, Nashvilles problem has always been offence- since their inception. Maybe its Trotz thing, but I am not so sure. I think its a personnel thing. Maybe under Lavy the culture can change.

 

That's kind of my point; I probably didn't express it well.  Deliberately or not (I am guessing not), Nashville seemed to put all their eggs in one basket.  They had always had a great defense - maybe one of the best in the league.  But they didn't address goal scoring.... ever.  Not adequately anyway.  Weber is not their problem; lack of offense is.  And that's not what I want to see with my team.  I want to see balance.  From goaltending all teh way down to offense.

 

As for a 90 pt forward v a weber, its a wash. I don't do it because its more entertaining for me to watch a G v. a weber, thought I can respect both aspects of the game and their impacts. While we do not have a weber in our system, we certainly have a couple of players that will be fun to watch (hopefully), on the defensive side. I hope its not before all my hair is grey.

 

In a sense of a true value, sure, it probably *is* a wash.  And if the Flyers had another pure scorer who can do basically everything on the ice, I would say get Weber here as soon as you can. I don't think it's all about entertainment - at least not for me.  Believe me, I am a big fan of Weber. I mean what's not to like? I just don't see how this really improves the team if you bring one asset at the expense of another. 

[Vanflyer]

I just don't see how this really improves the team if you bring one asset at the expense of another. 

 

We are in agreement on all points / sides. 

[mojo1917]

Well, it might not be. But, then again... it might. Alcohol is a very slippery slope that anyone who drinks is on. You might be at the top of the slide now, but it's very easy to fall in. I am a little bit concerned tbh. G had that 'golf' episode last year... we might now guess that a few drinks were imbibed at the time. I mean... does a rational human break his club and his wrist while playing golf? 

 

I think, that if the Flyers are smart, they will be encouraging G to get some private counseling now. butt gate... this could just be an isolated incident... but it might also be a sign that G is headed down a bad path.

I have broken a 4 iron 3 inches from the grip and shattered a persimmon driver, while just playing golf, no bad temper, just playing the game. The 4 iron was broken hitting out of some creek side rough and the driver nearly took my buddies nose off beside the tee box. I generate a lot of torque when I'm playing and swinging well, I bet a professional athlete would be able to do the same. The golf incident may not have been from drinking.

[radoran]

Second, what player is going to want to sign a contract with the Flyers if there is a risk of being shipped out before it kicks in?

 

Claude Giroux? Andrew MacDonald? Brayden Schenn?

 

In fact, everybody who has signed here since Crater was shipped out in the exact same situation?

[Bertmega]

I think you're missing the point. MacDonald was not going to turn that contract down as no other GM in their right mind would give him that deal. Schenn is a two year bridge contract and Giroux is thw subject of this debate. If he's shipped out I'd say it would be tough getting LT deals without a lot of cap crushing contracts with a lot of team unfriendly clauses.

Just my 2 cents though and stranger things have happened in the NHL

[radoran]

I think you're missing the point. MacDonald was not going to turn that contract down as no other GM in their right mind would give him that deal. Schenn is a two year bridge contract and Giroux is thw subject of this debate. If he's shipped out I'd say it would be tough getting LT deals without a lot of cap crushing contracts with a lot of team unfriendly clauses.

Just my 2 cents though and stranger things have happened in the NHL

 

I get your point entirely, and I do agree with it in principle. If you continually commit to players and then trade them away to commit to other players, it will certainly engender a bit of questioning if not distrust.

 

And I do believe that MacDonald's "had to accept" contract was too long and too much because he was being enticed to sign with this team. Exactly what you are saying about "a lot of cap crushing contracts."

 

Essentially, what I'm saying is this has already happened.

[jammer2]

  This might be one of the stupidest threads I've ever read on here. A lot of guessing and conjecture going on about Giroux first of all. To think he has a problem based on one night of drunken misadventure....that is taking a pretty big leap. It's impossible to draw these types of conclusions based on this one night. Now there is speculation he was drinking when he hurt himself golfing?? Really??....hey, maybe...maybe not, but until anything is proven, it's all conjecture. I'm willing to give G the benefit of the doubt.

 

  Does anyone care G is a 3.5 years younger than Weber, and is entering his prime? Our offense would be PUTRID without G. He *is* the straw that stirs the drink. How about we show some patience, and just see if one of these 5 or 6 excellent prospects turn out to be our stud d-man we have been searching for?? I admire Weber, he is great  in his own right, but the age difference AND the fact we finally have some wicked young D prospects of our own tells me to sit back and stay patient.