What is wrong with the Flyers and how do you fix it?

[Fizz]

57 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

They should start Lyon a few times.  He can't be any worse than our current tandem.  His only goal was really not his fault--he made a great save but the rebound went to a player nobody was watching.  

 

CF has seen a lot on the player side to work on.  I wonder if he is beginning to question the coaching?  If the youngins aren't playing, we really don't know if they can learn and grow.  I am not sure about scratching Patrick and Lindblom--is the real reason sparing them losing habits?

 

Why do I watch this? 

 

 

I think Fletcher would be stupid not to look at coaching. Sometimes if something isn't working it is the coaches job to change the system to find something that works. I just don't see that happening with this staff. But hey your guess is as good as mine. I do like sitting Hart though.

[radoran]

22 minutes ago, Fizz said:

I think Fletcher would be stupid not to look at coaching. Sometimes if something isn't working it is the coaches job to change the system to find something that works. I just don't see that happening with this staff. But hey your guess is as good as mine. I do like sitting Hart though.

 

Yes, it is clearly the guy Fletcher chose to coach the team that is a complete and abject failure and only he is capable of fixing it.

 

They've changed systems and coaches and GMs and everything BUT the players and nothing has changed.

 

I hear Ralph Krueger is available.

 

Clearly having no repercussions for their failure will help this team improve.

 

Have you seen the new amenties at the Big Bank Building? They have many ways to take your money and they are open for business.

 

Tickets are on sale now.

Edited April 1, 2021 by radoran

[Fizz]

38 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Yes, it is clearly the guy Fletcher chose to coach the team that is a complete and abject failure and only he is capable of fixing it.

 

They've changed systems and coaches and GMs and everything BUT the players and nothing has changed.

 

I hear Ralph Krueger is available.

 

Clearly having no repercussions for their failure will help this team improve.

 

Have you seen the new amenties at the Big Bank Building? They have many ways to take your money and they are open for business.

 

Tickets are on sale now.

So what do you propose Fletcher do? Place the whole team on wavers? Or maybe you are happy with this sh** show night in and night out.

Please tell me what you would do?

I can't wait.

[SCFlyguy]

3 hours ago, Fizz said:

So what do you propose Fletcher do? Place the whole team on wavers? Or maybe you are happy with this sh** show night in and night out.

Please tell me what you would do?

I can't wait.

(Past)Time to trade Giroux and Voracek for whatever you can get even if it is just cap relief.  You will probably have to retain salary in V's case.  The hard decision is whether you also trade Couturier.  I think the answer is yes and he has been my favorite player for years.  No one over 25 is going to be good anymore by the time the team could be good again.

 

I would also institute a rule that if you played for the Flyers you can't ever have any role with the team ever again.

[SCFlyguy]

In other words, this team is going to be bad/mediocre for years to come unless they draft a star or two.

[flyercanuck]

Just now, SCFlyguy said:

In other words, this team is going to be bad/mediocre for years to come unless they draft a star or two.

 

Whatever the f*** is going on in that locker room would destroy a star or two.

 

Look at Hart/Provorov/Konecny/Ghost/Patrick/Myers/Sanheim/Lindblom. And they're working on Farabee. Those were all very good up and coming players.

[pilldoc]

Lackluster. Disjointed. Uninterested. Fundamentals missing. D zone coverage lacking ...we can go on and on an on .....

 

Last game: "we can’t play games like that."
This game: they do the same damn thing.

 

There isn’t one thing this team does well, other than give up goals.

Edited April 1, 2021 by pilldoc

[SCFlyguy]

35 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Whatever the f*** is going on in that locker room would destroy a star or two.

 

Look at Hart/Provorov/Konecny/Ghost/Patrick/Myers/Sanheim/Lindblom. And they're working on Farabee. Those were all very good up and coming players.

I'm not so sure any more.  I was in full support of what Hextall was trying to do, but none of these guys, even before the recent downturn, had perennial all-star written on them.  None of them is or was going to be a Top 20 NHL player.  It appears the scouting department needs work.

[pilldoc]

Stat of the day ......

 

It’s been 27 years since a team gave up 70+ goals in a month – Ottawa in March 1994.  (Let that sink in..... 70+ goals in 1 month) That team went 14-61-9.

 

Flyers given up 75 goals this past month to the tune of 4.4 allowed per game. Only 2 games out of 17 games they had less than 3 goals allowed.  (SMH)

[CoachX]

7 hours ago, Fizz said:

So what do you propose Fletcher do? Place the whole team on wavers? Or maybe you are happy with this sh** show night in and night out.

Please tell me what you would do?

I can't wait.

Recognize what the real problem is. Talk to your coach, since you chose him. Find out what he thinks the problem and solution are. Then get him the pieces he says he needs. At this point, his proven  ability to coach winning teams should be enough of a resume to trust his decisions.   Move players like JVR, Jake and Giroux. Sign at least one veteran defenseman. Other role players like Laughton, Patrick, Raffl, NAK are all available.

 

Once AV is given a core group he can work with, and input on other players he thinks will work, I think the team will succeed. If it doesn't, then guess what, you would then be right. It would be his fault

[mojo1917]

The goal to make it 3-1 was just awful.

That play was the 2nd time Buffalo had the puck in the Flyers zone the entire period and they were around the 10 minute mark. 

The entire team sagged, it was game over right there.

This team has been terrible for a month now.

I don't recall ever being feeling as hopeless about the team as I do right now. 

There are other teams struggling with COVID, St Louis, Dallas, Calgary and Vancouver all come to mind. But I don't really care about them.  I have some internet friends in Texas and they're saying the same things we are saying about the Flyers about their team. It doesn't make this feel any less ******.

 

So a good landing spot for Giroux? How about Colorado ? try to get that Newhook kid in the deal.

He might waive to go there, that's a good team, he'll be able to penalty kill take draws and "Richards" his way to a cup.

Send Jake to Calgary or Dallas.

Try to sign Montour as a Free agent?

I don't think all of our young players suck, I do think they all took a step back for various reasons.

I'm not ready to pull the plug on the lot of them. 

This team as constructed is bad and it needs changed though.

 

 

 

[mkscrewy]

15 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Maybe they need rest since we know what they have been through to be here.

 

I'm going to try and hit the reset with Patrick and hope we see something soon.

 

I just want to see them skate like they want it more for just one 60 minute span. Once.

 

Then go from there. Got to start the best lineup regardless of age or pay. Way i see it.

I was hoping you were right and I was wrong. But the effort level, the compete level isn't there. Although I'm not a Q follower, I'm certain, without hard proof, there's some kind of internal team turmoil among the players versus management, whether that's AV or Fletcher or Dave Scott, or even veteran players. I saw one Tweet about Braun and Coots calling players out, without naming specific names, for coasting through (probably Jake), but I can't seem to dig it up—probably because of the Deep State and Hunter Biden have hidden it.

 

A year ago we were playing like a contender, and once that summer hockey started we looked like a totally different team and it's dropped off a cliff this season. These guys can't even go through the motions convincingly.

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

I'm not so sure any more.  I was in full support of what Hextall was trying to do, but none of these guys, even before the recent downturn, had perennial all-star written on them.  None of them is or was going to be a Top 20 NHL player.  It appears the scouting department needs work.

 

Konecny was our top scorer last season. He was 32nd in the NHL as a 22 year old.Provorov our best defenceman. He of 19 goals (tied for league lead) just a couple seasons ago. Sanheim/Myers looked like they were turning into a very good pairing. Hart was looking like a complete stud. Lindblom like a steal before he got sick. Something stinks in that lockerroom. Players don't collectively all stink in one season for nothing.

[mkscrewy]

 

https://twitter.com/billmeltzer/status/1377444770558132226?s=20

 

https://twitter.com/billmeltzer/status/1377448308990443522?s=20

Edited April 1, 2021 by mkscrewy

[radoran]

11 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

That play was the 2nd time Buffalo had the puck in the Flyers zone the entire period and they were around the 10 minute mark. 

 

It was striking how Buffalo dominated play for much of the game. They were playing like a team that wanted to win. The Flyers were chasing the puck all over the place.

 

12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

There are other teams struggling with COVID

 

Staal in his exit interview talked about how COVID just derailed the Sabres this year. They're obviously better than their play has shown.

 

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

So a good landing spot for Giroux? How about Colorado ? try to get that Newhook kid in the deal.

He might waive to go there, that's a good team, he'll be able to penalty kill take draws and "Richards" his way to a cup.

 

The Avs need to re-sign Landeskog and look pretty set in their top six. I don't know that they would want an $8+M depth player.

 

Regardless, I think they would have to retain salary to deal him.

 

21 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Send Jake to Calgary or Dallas.

[mojo1917]

@radoran

The implication with Jake is "far away".

Giroux has only 1 more year on his contract so, sure retain some salary for a year. Retain 2 million so his hit is 6 ish.

Newhook, a salary dump and a pick.

 

 

[tucson83]

33 minutes ago, mkscrewy said:

 

https://twitter.com/billmeltzer/status/1377444770558132226?s=20

 

https://twitter.com/billmeltzer/status/1377448308990443522?s=20

 

when you see non leader players calling out players out, that's not a coaching problem, that's a player leadership problem. even on post game, al was talking about that you cant throw it all on the coach, it has to come down to the leadership on the ice.

 

this team needs new leadership, fletch cannot go with this same core next year, if he does then it is on him and he should be on the hot seat.

Edited April 1, 2021 by tucson83

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@radoran

The implication with Jake is "far away".

Giroux has only 1 more year on his contract so, sure retain some salary for a year. Retain 2 million so his hit is 6 ish.

Newhook, a salary dump and a pick.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'd call an Uber for both of them to get to the airport.

 

You're still asking the Avs to pay a pretty good price for a player that they don't really need. And, unlike the Flyers, I don't see a good "salary dump" candidate on their roster.

 

Teams just aren't lining up to get Claude "his" Cup. And being the captain of a squad that has multiple people talking about how unmotivated and coasting the team is doesn't help his cause. It's hard to come up with a bigger indictment of his "leadership."

 

Remember, ol' Fletch was pretty straight when saying other GMs aren't taking his calls and aren't calling back.

 

Nashville would probably swap Johansen for him, but that's not "progress" for the Flyers and probably not where he wants to go.

 

Lopping off the top four salaried forwards on this squad would be a nice start to a reset, but hard to actually accomplish.

 

[mojo1917]

6 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

when you see non leader players calling out players out, that's not a coaching problem, that's a player leadership problem. even on post game, al was talking about that you cant throw it all on the coach, it has to come down to the leadership on the ice.

 

this team needs new leadership, fletch cannot go with this same core next year, if he does then it is on him and he should be on the hot seat.

Couturier wears a letter.

Braun is a senior guy and has played in cup finals.

They are  "the leaders".

We're not in the room, so we don't know what's happening- Add to that the fact that the press has zero access to be able to report about the room. We don't know anything other than the on ice product is bad.

This quoted take is one of thousands of other suppositions that lacks actual insight.

 

The player mix is bad, they are not playing like a unit or for each other. 

One guy whipping the boys up Rudy style is a movie trope, not something that works on professionals.

Too many dudes are checked out though and a change is needed. 

 

 

 

 

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

Teams just aren't lining up to get Claude "his" Cup. And being the captain of a squad that has multiple people talking about how unmotivated and coasting the team is doesn't help his cause. It's hard to come up with a bigger indictment of his "leadership."

No see, the idea is where would he waive his NMC to play? He's not waiving to go to rebuild, I guarantee that.

He's going to Ontario, maybe or to a team with a chance to win.

He's not going to Arizona.

That's what where I'm coming from.

 

 

 

[GratefulFlyers]

tl;dir version: Giroux, Voracek are not to blame for this mess.

 

The consensus of the board seems to be that Giroux and Voracek are "cancers" or something equally bad. Why? Supposedly the Flyers "changed everything" over the last decade except for Giroux and Voracek and the crappy results speak for themselves.

 

If it was true the Flyers "changed everything" other than 2 players...except of course it isn't true.

 

The other supposedly self-evident thing: Giroux is a terrible leader; Voracek is worse. The implication is if these 2 were Messier types the Flyers would've snapped to attention years ago and delivered multiple Cup wins. (lol jk)

 

But let's be real we can't know what kinda leaders they are, or who's contradicting or supporting them, either out loud or on the sly. Judging "leadership" from afar doesn't work imho. Any conclusions you draw from it may be entirely wrong.

 

Something has obviously gone wrong (to put it mildly) when young players who looked so promising last year now can't play worth a damn. Someone brought up Konecny. He's the Poster Boy I think. Figure out what happened to him and I believe you'll find it's team-wide. Could be something personal but I don't think so.

 

 

[radoran]

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

No see, the idea is where would he waive his NMC to play? He's not waiving to go to rebuild, I guarantee that.

He's going to Ontario, maybe or to a team with a chance to win.

He's not going to Arizona.

That's what where I'm coming from.

 

Totally agree. It's just a two way street - the issue is whether a "place he wants to go" wants him and at what price are they willing to spend.

[GratefulFlyers]

I forgot to add - It may be the only way to "fix" this team, getting rid of Giroux, Voracek...Personally I'd start with Hayes then the obvious rejects on D. But I do understand the "wit's end" sentiment of jettisoning these 2.

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, GratefulFlyers said:

The consensus of the board seems to be that Giroux and Voracek are "cancers" or something equally bad. Why? Supposedly the Flyers "changed everything" over the last decade except for Giroux and Voracek and the crappy results speak for themselves.

 

If it was true the Flyers "changed everything" other than 2 players...except of course it isn't true.

 

The other supposedly self-evident thing: Giroux is a terrible leader; Voracek is worse. The implication is if these 2 were Messier types the Flyers would've snapped to attention years ago and delivered multiple Cup wins. (lol jk)

I've been typing ideas similar to this for a long time. This is nicely put. 

Those two were just good enough to keep the team from being terrible over the last 10 years. 

They've played on dreadful teams, if they sucked worse maybe the team would be better today because of better draft positions.  The monkeys at the top of the tree are the ones to take aim at.

 

[radoran]

1 minute ago, GratefulFlyers said:

The consensus of the board seems to be that Giroux and Voracek are "cancers" or something equally bad.

 

No, my assertion is that they're simply not good enough players to build the team around.

 

They needed to be better than the Capitals, Penguins, Tampa...

 

They simply weren't. And aren't.

 

And other, younger teams are emerging like Colorado, the Islanders, Canes, Vegas, Oilers, Jets...

 

Continuing to try to make this roster work is a fool's errand.

 

They're good players. They're not good enough.

 

The evidence is the last decade.

 

Give Couturier the C, lop off anybody else over the age of 28 and find pieces to build around that.