Couturier Extended - 8Y/$7.75M AAV

[mkscrewy]

COOOOOOOOTSSSSS

[mojo1917]

Nice!

[FD19372]

Sorry to rain on this "Yay, we re-signed Coots to a long term deal" parade, but his play will start to drop off somewhere in his 30s and we'll still be paying him. They could have used some of that money to improve the roster with other players in addition to Coots. Couturier is a good to great player, but this should have been around 5 years, not 8. Typical Flyers contract, and they wonder why they don't win a damned thing.

[OccamsRazor]

18 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Sorry to rain on this "Yay, we re-signed Coots to a long term deal" parade, but his play will start to drop off somewhere in his 30s and we'll still be paying him. They could have used some of that money to improve the roster with other players in addition to Coots. Couturier is a good to great player, but this should have been around 5 years, not 8. Typical Flyers contract, and they wonder why they don't win a damned thing.

 

C'mon can we just be happy today?

 

We have 8 years to woah was me...

 

...live in the now....that is all back to sippin my bourbon...

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

that is all back to sippin my bourbon...

Just don't mix it with any orange Kool-Aid. 

[Fixxer]

It might get expensive by the end of the deal, but Couturier has an elite two-way game, so the worst case is that he gets back to a more defensive role by the end of that contract. After all, Jagr said that, back when Coots was 19, that he was the best defensive forward on the Flyers team. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Fixxer
Coots and not "Couts"

[radoran]

36 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Sorry to rain on this "Yay, we re-signed Coots to a long term deal" parade, but his play will start to drop off somewhere in his 30s and we'll still be paying him. They could have used some of that money to improve the roster with other players in addition to Coots. Couturier is a good to great player, but this should have been around 5 years, not 8. Typical Flyers contract, and they wonder why they don't win a damned thing.

 

Said before, but the term is how they got him at ~$1.5M less than his market value as a UFA.

 

Why does Couturier sign a 5-year deal at that rate?

[FD19372]

16 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Said before, but the term is how they got him at ~$1.5M less than his market value as a UFA.

 

Why does Couturier sign a 5-year deal at that rate?

Great that they got him for less than market value, but my crystal ball is broken ...and I don't know that we're going to love that contract in its last 3 seasons. Does he sign a 5 year deal at that rate? Maybe if you back load the contract, that could work.

Edited August 27, 2021 by FD19372

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Great that they got him for less than market value, but my crystal ball is broken ...and I don't know that we're going to love that contract in its last 3 seasons. Does he sign a 5 year deal at that rate? Maybe if you back load the contract, that could work.

 

I get where you're coming from, and I don't know that I'm going to love it, either. A lot will have to do with what happens in the first five years of it - if it comes to that.

 

Presuming that the flat cap era has ended and the cap is rising again at the rate it did pre-pandemic, it shouldn't hamstring the team six years from now.

 

As it is, they're telling a player that he's going to make $62M on an eight year deal they are the only ones able to sign him to, as opposed to possibly 7Y/$9M ($63M) as a UFA signing elsewhere.

 

IMO, someone was going to give him that and this is one of the Very Rare cases where I'm glad they stepped up and did it.

 

We'll circle back in five years and see where we are

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

Sorry to rain on this "Yay, we re-signed Coots to a long term deal" parade, but his play will start to drop off somewhere in his 30s and we'll still be paying him.

You're not raining on my parade at all.

 

I know you watch Couturier's game. 

What part will not be good when he's at the end of this contract?

All the things he does well will help him age gracefully in the league. 

Truly, would anyone notice if he "loses a step"? I doubt it.

His hockey IQ, vision, size and hand-eye will all be fine. 

You want to be pessimistic about the team in 2027/28? today? 

that attitude must be awesome at parties. 

 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

Sorry to rain on this "Yay, we re-signed Coots to a long term deal" parade, but his play will start to drop off somewhere in his 30s and we'll still be paying him. They could have used some of that money to improve the roster with other players in addition to Coots. Couturier is a good to great player, but this should have been around 5 years, not 8. Typical Flyers contract, and they wonder why they don't win a damned thing.

I didn't realize the flyers were the only team in the league, which must be the case. Because I think only that would create a scenario where only 5 was an option at that AVV. Good to know.

[FD19372]

44 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I didn't realize the flyers were the only team in the league, which must be the case. Because I think only that would create a scenario where only 5 was an option at that AVV. Good to know.

Happy to help. You might not like that 7 year contract, by the time it's up.

[SCFlyguy]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

What part will not be good when he's at the end of this contract?

This isn't the 90's anymore.  A player's prime is now 23-28, not 28-32 or whatever.

 

Since 2010, only 20 players have scored 55 points in a season at age 35 or above.  That's less than 2 a season and a lot of those guys are in the Hall of Fame or will be.  Could Couturier do it?  I guess it's possible but very unlikely.

[SCFlyguy]

Couts will likely still be serviceable in his mid-30s, but he will also have a LOT of tread on his tires by then.

[mojo1917]

20 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

This isn't the 90's anymore.  A player's prime is now 23-28, not 28-32 or whatever.

I reckon we'll see.

His game was never about speed and yet he's a damn effective player. 

I don't know that I think the skills that set him apart and won him a Selke trophy will erode to where he's Willie Mays-ing around the half-wall in 2028. 

I say this with the understanding that the sport is trending younger. 

I don't think paradigm you're basing your opinion on applies to this particular player.

[mkscrewy]

shouldn't we be griping that this is actually a disservice to Coots which now denies him the chance to win a Cup with another team?

[LegionOfDoom]

Why so many debbie downers. Talk about short term memory.....Coots at 35+ will score hat tricks, silly girl. He scored a hat trick in the Playoff on one leg! He should have both legs available in his wrong side of 30's and if he doesn't then we can Chris Pronger this conversation to LTIR him then. Chill Wiggens...chill.

 

 

[LegionOfDoom]

And as was said....ya let someone else come by and Reap our Rewards....

[Bakanekimiwa]

On 8/26/2021 at 3:54 PM, ruxpin said:

Yeah, age 35-38 will be rough, but there's also this reality thing regarding what you have to do NOW.

No worries, he'll be on the IR from 35-38.

[Mad Dog]

This needed to be done.  Let's be honest: he is the Flyers' MVP, whether we want to admit it or not.

[CoachX]

Glad Coots is signed and staying. Flyers are known for taking care of their own, sometimes to a fault.

 

I just find it curious that Hayes is hated for the length of his contract, and regardless of what he does in the early part of it, it won't be worth it because of the anchor he'll be at the end. But Coots is worth his contract,  and what he will do now will make what he does at the end tolerable 

 

Didn't we make the same HATE arguments about the Voracek contract, and the Giroux contract? Both looked good at the time they were signed

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

Glad Coots is signed and staying. Flyers are known for taking care of their own, sometimes to a fault.

 

I just find it curious that Hayes is hated for the length of his contract, and regardless of what he does in the early part of it, it won't be worth it because of the anchor he'll be at the end. But Coots is worth his contract,  and what he will do now will make what he does at the end tolerable 

 

Didn't we make the same HATE arguments about the Voracek contract, and the Giroux contract? Both looked good at the time they were signed

 

Couturier was grossly underpaid for what he did for the Flyers the last 5 years. Giroux has been one of, if not our best player for most of his tenure. Voracek was a pretty good player for Philly who was signed, unfortunately, to too much.

 

Hayes wasn't wanted by his first team, who traded him for a 1st and then wasn't wanted by his 2nd team. He then said he wouldn't sign with the Flyers unless they overpaid him, which Fletcher then went and did. At that point he had done nothing for the Flyers. He's had one good and one bad season. It was supposed to be the last few years that were bad.

 

If you can't see the difference...

[radoran]

8 hours ago, CoachX said:

Glad Coots is signed and staying. Flyers are known for taking care of their own, sometimes to a fault.

 

I just find it curious that Hayes is hated for the length of his contract, and regardless of what he does in the early part of it, it won't be worth it because of the anchor he'll be at the end. But Coots is worth his contract,  and what he will do now will make what he does at the end tolerable 

 

Didn't we make the same HATE arguments about the Voracek contract, and the Giroux contract? Both looked good at the time they were signed

 

Hated the Voracek contract when it was signed. Didn't need to be signed when it was and the team was bidding against themselves.

 

Giroux was designed to be overpaid at the start and underpaid at the end which has pretty much worked out. The team results have been disappointing.

 

Hayes at $7.1M for that term as a player with one 20+ goal season and one 50 point season is completely different in my mind than a similarly aged player with multiple 30/70 seasons at $7.75M.

 

Again, Couturier is a $9M player on the open market and he just signed for $1M less than another team could have offered. I would have let any other team offering Hayes $7M make that mistake.

 

I don't consider Couturier an egregious mistake at all.

 

I'll appreciate Couturier for the next five years and let the three after that work out as they do.

[CoachX]

16 hours ago, radoran said:

I don't consider Couturier an egregious mistake at all.

i don't consider it any type of mistake

[CoachX]

22 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Hayes wasn't wanted by his first team, who traded him for a 1st and then wasn't wanted by his 2nd team. He then said he wouldn't sign with the Flyers unless they overpaid him, which Fletcher then went and did. At that point he had done nothing for the Flyers. He's had one good and one bad season. It was supposed to be the last few years that were bad.

 

If you can't see the difference...

i clearly see the difference.

 

As for the point of Hayes strong arming the team, do you blame him? It isn't his fault they offered the contract. It's a business, right?

 

My point is, that we shred management for every long term contract they sign, except if it's for a guy we like. If Hayes comes out and has a 30+ goal season and the team has a good playoff run, was he worth it? Or more specifically, should the Flyers happen to win a cup during his time here, will we still bitch about the length of the signing?

 

Sometimes a little tappy-tap on the brakes can relieve alot of angst