whom had enough of watching these Flyers?

[OccamsRazor]

31 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Good news .... Flyers have the 6th toughest strength of schedule remaining ...

 

 

 

[Fuzz]

That's interesting.

Still doubt they'll finish in the top 3.  If they get a top 3 pick it'll be most likely through the lottery.

[flyer4ever]

20 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

I think he is being more sarcastic than anything else.  A bit more tongue in cheek.  Even though this is a deep draft there is a huge difference in drafting even at #2/#3 compared to drafting at #8/#9.

 

 

Here are the current odds.   Knowing the Flyers they will go on one of there patented runs near the end of the season they will finish in the 10-12 range and miss out on getting a chance on an impact player.  Don't forget this stupid brain trust TRADED AWAY there 2nd RD pick in this years draft.

 

 

Oh that's right ....they traded that pick for that wonderful stiff better known as Risto and his over payed contract.  The gift that keeps on giving.  When all the other GM's knew this was going to be a deep draft our brain dead GM traded the #2 pick away.

 

Here is the BIG BOARD as of now .....

 

 

Granted ..even if the Flyers miss out on Bedard, the likes of Fantilli / Carlsson / Michkov could be wonderful consolation prizes.  As it stands now the flyers would miss out on those players as well.  Will Smith listed #5 would still be a great pick along with Yager #9.  I'm still researching all the other players.

 

So in essence, the Flyers have to nail their 1st RD pick.  Drafting 2-5 guarantees an impact player.  So yeah he is being a bit tongue in cheek sarcastic about how the Flyers can't even tank right, but history has proven when the Flyers are bad they always go a small run to push them away from the better players. And yes there is no guarantees in drafting said players..... However, I like the Flyers drafting in the 2-5 range better than drafting 9-12.   Especially since the Flyers have NO #2 this year  ....(IDIOTS)

 

 

 

Cutter Gauthier 19 yrs young, 2G, 6A, 8 points. Connor Bedard 17 YEARS YOUNG, 8G, 13A 21 PTS.

Anyone who thinks there isn't a difference between drafting top 2 or top 5 or top 10 shouldn't watch hockey, or be the GM of a peewee team, let alone a once proud NHL franchise.

[CoachX]

i was reading today about the Flyers goal-tending situation. Assuming the article is accurate, it sounds like that's one area of strength that they could use for negotiations. As I have admitted, I haven't watched, so I have no first hand knowledge (opinion). So I ask, could the Flyers deal away a goalie, specifically Hart, to try to gain multiple pieces, or high draft pick, to start a, dare I say..... <rebuild> ?

 

[flyercanuck]

22 minutes ago, CoachX said:

i was reading today about the Flyers goal-tending situation. Assuming the article is accurate, it sounds like that's one area of strength that they could use for negotiations. As I have admitted, I haven't watched, so I have no first hand knowledge (opinion). So I ask, could the Flyers deal away a goalie, specifically Hart, to try to gain multiple pieces, or high draft pick, to start a, dare I say..... <rebuild> ?

 

 

it took us 40 years to find a goalie. I think that answers your question.

[flyer4ever]

22 minutes ago, CoachX said:

i was reading today about the Flyers goal-tending situation. Assuming the article is accurate, it sounds like that's one area of strength that they could use for negotiations. As I have admitted, I haven't watched, so I have no first hand knowledge (opinion). So I ask, could the Flyers deal away a goalie, specifically Hart, to try to gain multiple pieces, or high draft pick, to start a, dare I say..... <rebuild> ?

 

You are my pick for the next GM. Definitely a move an astute asset manager would make. 

 

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

 

it took us 40 years to find a goalie. I think that answers your question.

Don't disagree with that, but poor Carter Hart will be shell shocked and worn out before this team is ready for a serious cup run, and to me that is the only acceptable goal. I would like to see Hart play for a decent team, it would make him the front runner to replace Carey Price as the go to national team guy, ( if the little turd bettman ever lets that happen). He has earned it. 

[flyercanuck]

10 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

You are my pick for the next GM. Definitely a move an astute asset manager would make. 

 

Don't disagree with that, but poor Carter Hart will be shell shocked and worn out before this team is ready for a serious cup run, and to me that is the only acceptable goal. I would like to see Hart play for a decent team, it would make him the front runner to replace Carey Price as the go to national team guy, ( if the little turd bettman ever lets that happen). He has earned it. 

 

Oh I like Hart, and agree he deserves better. But since Hextall is the only GM Philly has had in 4 decades who actually thought goaltending was important, using picks on Hart/Sandstrom/Ersson/Ustimenko/Tomek/Fedotov in 4 drafts, I'm just not too confident they can get another in my lifetime.

[radoran]

23 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

it took us 40 years to find a goalie. I think that answers your question.

 

Psst... You know who the Flyers also traded?

 

Bernie Parent.

 

True Story.

 

[CoachX]

26 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

it took us 40 years to find a goalie. I think that answers your question.

I dont think it does. It took them 40 years becasue they refused to address the position the correct way. Not becasue there werent good goalies out there. You have to give to get. Right now there arent a lot of valued players on this roster that will bring you a good return

[CoachX]

7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Oh I like Hart, and agree he deserves better. But since Hextall is the only GM Philly has had in 4 decades who actually thought goaltending was important, using picks on Hart/Sandstrom/Ersson/Ustimenko/Tomek/Fedotov in 4 drafts, I'm just not too confident they can get another in my lifetime.

to further your point, I would be worried they would give Hart away for peanuts. I guess my initial question did not take into consideration the dumb-ass making the trade

 

The article suggested Hart would be worth one, maybe 2 firsts, and prospects....thats the kind of deal that can reverse the course. Are either of the back ups a true number 1?

[mojo1917]

32 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Are either of the back ups a true number 1?

Of the two, I would think Ersson would be the most likely candidate to be a #1 goalie.

I think Samuel the better goalie of the two.

That's not to say Sandstrom is bad, I just think his athletic style of play will catch up to him as he gets older and loses some of his fast twitch talent.

Puck always seems to hit Ersson. Like the way the puck seems to hit Hart when he's on his game. 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by mojo1917

[CoachX]

3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Of the two, I would think Ersson would be the most likely candidate to be a #1 goalie.

I think Samuel the better goalie of the two.

That's not to say Sandstrom is bad, I just think his athletic style of play will catch up to him as he gets older and loses some of his fast twitch talent.

Puck always seems to hit Ersson. Like the way the puck seems to hit Hart when he's on his game. 

 

 

So if they traded Hart, got a huge return, and put Errson in, that would be a good move? I read the top three guys in the draft are game changers. Any truth to that? Would they be more valuable to this team right now, having Ersson as a suitable replacement, than Hart would be?

[flyercanuck]

33 minutes ago, CoachX said:

So if they traded Hart, got a huge return, and put Errson in, that would be a good move? I read the top three guys in the draft are game changers. Any truth to that? Would they be more valuable to this team right now, having Ersson as a suitable replacement, than Hart would be?

 

You're not getting Connor Bedard for Carter Hart. The guys after him could, or couldn't be game changers.

 

I nkow there's been good goalies in the draft in the last 40 years, the Flyers brain trust just rarely ever valued them. 

 

You mentioned in a post above how you could get 2-1sts plus for Hart. I'm trying to remember the last time a goalie brought anything close to that in...Patrick Roy? The guy who single handedly won the Habs 2 cups? 

 

And could 2 - 1sts turn the Flyers around? They could, if someone using them had a clue and lucked out. Has Foerster and York turned the franchise around? What about Farabee and O'brien? Patrick and Frost? Provorov and Konecny? The latter two are the only two I'd even consider trading Hart for, and I still wouldn't. And they sure haven't turned the franchise around. Actually Foerster and York and Farabee and O'Brien and Patrick and Frost and Provorov and Konecny combined with a team at the cap limit haven't turned it around.

 

Neither has Hart, but he at least is earning his money, at least when Ristolainen isn't taking him out.

 

Now if you're blowing the whole thing up and starting from scratch, sure, trade Hart.

Edited January 4, 2023 by flyercanuck

[CoachX]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You're not getting Connor Bedard for Carter Hart. The guys after him could, or couldn't be game changers.

 

You mentioned in a post above how you could get 2-1sts plus for Hart. I'm trying to remember the last time a goalie brought anything close to that in...Patrick Roy? The guy who single handedly won the Habs 2 cups? 

 

And could 2 - 1sts turn the Flyers around? They could, if someone using them had a clue and lucked out. Has Foerster and York turned the franchise around? What about Farabee and O'brien? Patrick and Frost? Provorov and Konecny? The latter two are the only two I'd even consider trading Hart for, and I still wouldn't. And they sure haven't turned the franchise around. Actually Foerster and York and Farabee and O'Brien and Patrick and Frost and Provorov and Konecny combined with a team at the cap limit haven't turned it around.

 

Neither has Hart, but he at least is earning his money, at least when Ristolainen isn't taking him out.

Connor Beddard is a lottery pick. So are the others directly behind him. I'm not suggesting anyone would trade Beddard for Hart. I'm just wondering if trading Hart for more high end picks would give the Flyers some better options. I get your point about "the last time". But, it did happen. And it could happen again. If there is a team that thinks a true number one goalie could win them a cup, or 2, NOW, then who knows what they will give up. The Flyers traded away the farm to get Eric Lindros. Some kid named Forsberg was part of that. It's not unthinkable that a team might be willing to part with significant assets if Hart was that valuable to them. And maybe another game changing talent can come from that package.

 

You are making a lot of examples of how Flyer picks have failed to make an impact. Point taken. And you could say that management hasn't changed so future picks will yield the same result. Another valid point. However, there is a possibility that change could happen, and having assets to build on is apparently the key (as regularly pointed out by damn near ever Flyer fan on this forum). I mean, after all, no one thought Tortorella would ever be hired as head coach

[flyercanuck]

15 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Connor Beddard is a lottery pick. So are the others directly behind him. I'm not suggesting anyone would trade Beddard for Hart. I'm just wondering if trading Hart for more high end picks would give the Flyers some better options. I get your point about "the last time". But, it did happen. And it could happen again. If there is a team that thinks a true number one goalie could win them a cup, or 2, NOW, then who knows what they will give up. The Flyers traded away the farm to get Eric Lindros. Some kid named Forsberg was part of that. It's not unthinkable that a team might be willing to part with significant assets if Hart was that valuable to them. And maybe another game changing talent can come from that package.

 

You are making a lot of examples of how Flyer picks have failed to make an impact. Point taken. And you could say that management hasn't changed so future picks will yield the same result. Another valid point. However, there is a possibility that change could happen, and having assets to build on is apparently the key (as regularly pointed out by damn near ever Flyer fan on this forum). I mean, after all, no one thought Tortorella would ever be hired as head coach

 

The only problem I have with this thinking is the team that would give up a 1st, or 1sts for Hart, likely isn't returning a high pick...they'd be a contender going for it.  None of the bottom 3 teams are going to trade a shot at Bedard for Hart. I get that it doesn't have to be that high of a pick, but imagine trading away the best goalie we've had in ages and getting the likes of Rubstov and Morin in return?

[Lindbergh31]

On 1/3/2023 at 3:24 PM, GratefulFlyers said:

 

nothing personal @Lindbergh31 but…

… I don’t understand why there’s so many posts like this one. I really don’t. Everyone knows that finishing dead last nets about a 20% chance of picking first. That’s it, 20 or maybe 21%. Are 1 in 5 odds really worth playing a whole season, 82 games’ worth, trying to lose as many as possible? 

 

Even if you could get management on board …. which would never happen … I guess there’s just 2 players in the entire NHL who’d go along with sabotaging their own team’s effort to win. Now just because they both happen to play for the Flyers this year () is still no reason to pretend “tanking” is anything more than a silly pipe dream. 

 

Unless they’re crazy-lucky, which they’ve never once been on draft day, the only way the Flyers get the #1 pick is if they trade for it. And god help us if it’s Fletcher doing the negotiating. Oh he’ll get Bedard alright but if you think the Flyers’ future is mortgaged now … 

 

Grateful, I was being sarcastic but if the Flyers aren't going to make the playoffs I'd rather see them end up dead last to get the 1st overall pick then just miss the playoffs and get a middle 1st round pick.

[Lindbergh31]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

So if they traded Hart, got a huge return, and put Errson in, that would be a good move? I read the top three guys in the draft are game changers. Any truth to that? Would they be more valuable to this team right now, having Ersson as a suitable replacement, than Hart would be?

If I'm not mistaken he's 24 years old, so in the next 6 to 10 years he'll be coming into his prime years as a goalie. If the Flyers management can't build a contending team around him in that time period then Flyers fans are screwed. The Flyers finally got a goalie so why would you want to trade him.

[phlfly]

More likely Russian will not be taken due the war and sanctions, so that will move other players up. Flyers can try to take russian, than work with State department to bring him here to play.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, phlfly said:

More likely Russian will not be taken due the war and sanctions, so that will move other players up. Flyers can try to take russian, than work with State department to bring him here to play.

First, hi. Welcome back!

 

 

Yeah, I agree taking a Russian is extremely unlikely. With what happened to Getting Fedotov, the Flyers may never take a Russian again.  Though Fletcher is attracted to self-inflicted failure.

[phlfly]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

First, hi. Welcome back!

 

 

Yeah, I agree taking a Russian is extremely unlikely. With what happened to Getting Fedotov, the Flyers may never take a Russian again.  Though Fletcher is attracted to self-inflicted failure.

 

Hi man, I glad to see you here. I have been busy with travel soccer and hockey. Soccer is done. But hockey is continue, I have been in Philly area like 4 times already, NJ, NE Phila, Valley Forge x2 times. My son team plays AHF and CBHL, so AHF is most Phila and NJ teams. So I have been around hockey so much, in week we are going to Charleston SC. 

 

Well it's true, my thinking is Flyers are in bad situation, so taking well good promising player is might a good idea, he will not play first year anyway, but later year or two, they will be able bring him to Flyers, while collecting more draft players. Remember Malkin, he was allowed to play in USA, but now looking at this, Pitt had balls to do this draft. But other save picks might be next Nolan Patrick. Still bitter to me. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by phlfly

[CoachX]

18 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

If I'm not mistaken he's 24 years old, so in the next 6 to 10 years he'll be coming into his prime years as a goalie. If the Flyers management can't build a contending team around him in that time period then Flyers fans are screwed. The Flyers finally got a goalie so why would you want to trade him.

To be clear, I don't want to trade him, and it isn't that I don't like him.

 

The Flyers are horrible. They need to rebuild. To do that, they need assets in the system (draft picks), prospects who will develop into good NHL players, and some top end talent. They cannot get that through free agency. Decades of trying (I laugh when I type this) have proven it. So how do you get these things they need?

 

Well, the only real position of strength they have is in goal. They have nothing else. Oh maybe Farabee or TK, possibly Provy, can bring you a return, but not a significant one. Then of course, you have to replace the guy you move. However, if Errson is a legit number 1, and Hart is a stellar number 1, the drop off is not as drastic. And Hart is the one asset that might be able to bring you multiple impact pieces...i repeat, MULTIPLE. As suggest by the article I read, he could fetch two first round picks. For this franchise, that's gold.

 

That's why you do it

[mojo1917]

19 hours ago, CoachX said:

So if they traded Hart, got a huge return, and put Errson in, that would be a good move? I read the top three guys in the draft are game changers. Any truth to that?

 

To me it's Bedard as a clear #1 pick, maybe he is a generational talent, he seems like 3 or 4 clicks above Jack Hughes' talent level at a younger age too.

I think Adam Fantilli who is playing lights out at Michigan is a great consolation prize. He has had a great world jr tournament.

He's not ZOMG as Bedard but he's fast and smart and has filthy mitts too.

I think those are my top two. 

I'm not sure who the 3rd guy is, the Swede Carlsson ? or the Russian Defensman Michkov..I'd be leary of drafting a Russian kid with my first pick the way the world is right now. If he's still around at the bottom of the first round or in the 2nd....I would take a chance on him.

 

Your idea is tempting and I think would require some big brass huevos to pull off in Philadelphia. 45 years of wandering the desert and it appears the goalie has finally been found, I don't know if you give that guy up for not Conor Bedard. 

I totally see where you're coming from though, Gauthier, a later 1st or 2nd rd pick this year, and the second pick in this draft Fantilli or Carlsson could potentially jump start a resurgence. 

 

[CoachX]

Here's another thought on trading Hart

 

For those wanting to tank, trading Hart is definitely a strong move to help that process. Maybe the strongest. Let's assume for the sake of this discussion, that the writer of the article is correct, and Hart brings you 2 firsts, and prospects. The team dealing that much for him is an obvious contender, so those #1's, or at least this year's, will most likely be middle of the pack or later. It doesn't increase your chances for Beddard very much, if at all. But you still have your existing #1 to hope for. But, and I realize this is numb-nuts CF we are talking about, you might be able to package that late number 1 with one of these high contract losers you want to get rid of, and possibly move up higher. Or maybe you package Tk with a late number one and see if you get two picks that might have a chance at Beddard

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, CoachX said:

if Errson is a legit number 1

 

I am on board with your general theory, but Errson was 2.98/.893 in the AHL last season; 2.72/.910 this year.

 

He has four NHL games, two of which came against two of the legit worst teams in the league.

 

Can we maybe just hold off a bit before he is a legit #1, much less a Vezina finalist?

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I am on board with your general theory, but Errson was 2.98/.893 in the AHL last season; 2.72/.910 this year.

 

He has four NHL games, two of which came against two of the legit worst teams in the league.

 

Can we maybe just hold off a bit before he is a legit #1, much less a Vezina finalist?

 

Just about to say this exact same thing. Thanks rad!