Poulin20 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 31 minutes ago, CoachX said: This I why Im glad I am a Flyer fan, and totally love all other Flyer fans. We want a rebuild. We get one. Then we want wins. Wins make us want playoffs. But Flyer fan criticize those that want playoffs because its a rebuild. Then we want losses to get higher picks. But those losses lead to criticism of players and coaches. Those losses bring us back to hoping for more to get higher picks. But then we play well in a loss to a really good team and we are hoping more wins come from the remaining games. And in all of this we want the coach who appears to be responsible for this team being competitive, and on the right track, to move on so we can get another coach. Im pretty sure its this constant flip flop of wants that molded my personality and has led to me having three ex-wives. And here all along I thought it was just because I was hard to get along with I’m pretty sure we all feel this way as fans because we haven’t had a GM who knew how to build a winner since Keith Allen. My favorite teams of the 1980s were built by Allen and then were slowly eroded / evicerated by the parade of fair to bad GMs since. To be fair the GMs since Allen were good at acquiring flashy players and talent at times but were lousy at building a team that could win in the long run. That is actually what they hired Hextall for but then they pulled the plug on him early and frankly as time goes on it doesn’t look like his picks are panning out as planned anyway. My hope with the current management is that they are looking long term to build a winner the proper way. It’s way to early to judge if they will be successful but similar to Hexy their hearts are in the right place and we are going to have to wait and see about how their long term plan unfolds. Edited March 27 by Poulin20 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 31 minutes ago, CoachX said: I look at this season and I see a team that plays hard for 60. They have overachieved as a team and play as a unit. Individual players are doing really well, succeeding and developing. And all this in the middle of a rebuild and with the drama of Hart. To put it succinctly, I attribute the success of this team, and I consider them a success, to Torts. Why change that? This is why you hired him and he is delivering. Moving him to another role for a project that is unproven, is the same idiotic thing the Eagles did with their coordinator hirings, albeit they couldn't do a thing to stop the previous guys from leaving. There has been a revolving door of head coaches with this franchise. Its time to have some stability. Brad Shaw is the one who is responsible for coaching up York, Sanheim and even turn Risto into a decent Defenseman. Even quickly turned Ginning and Attard around and they look good. That is Brad Shaw's doing not Torts. Brad is the stabilizing force on this team not Torts and Brad is the guy who should take over when Torts gets promoted at seasons end. So if it isn't Shaw then who do you want as the next coach? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: So if it isn't Shaw then who do you want as the next coach? Brad Shaw is acknowledged around the league as a talented coach. Tortorella gives him credit for Zamula's development and York's - and that's saying a lot. But why do the Flyers need to change coach? If Tortorella wants out that's one thing but I hope nobody is thinking of changing coaches until Tortorella's had enough of the Flyers ... or the Flyers have had enough of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Brad Shaw is acknowledged around the league as a talented coach. Tortorella gives him credit for Zamula's development and York's - and that's saying a lot. But why do the Flyers need to change coach? If Tortorella wants out that's one thing but I hope nobody is thinking of changing coaches until Tortorella's had enough of the Flyers ... or the Flyers have had enough of him. Because Torts wants to be in management and I shared this the other day in a clip and you even liked it. He wanted to be in management with the Blue Jackets and Jarmo wouldn't allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 18 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Brad Shaw is the one who is responsible for coaching up York, Sanheim and even turn Risto into a decent Defenseman. Even quickly turned Ginning and Attard around and they look good. That is Brad Shaw's doing not Torts. Brad is the stabilizing force on this team not Torts and Brad is the guy who should take over when Torts gets promoted at seasons end. So if it isn't Shaw then who do you want as the next coach? that's the point. I dont want another coach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Because Torts wants to be in management and I shared this the other day in a clip and you even liked it. He wanted to be in management with the Blue Jackets and Jarmo wouldn't allow it. as a follow up, if Torts moves to another position on his own, then I am on board with your POV. Not because I know Shaw would be good, but because I value your opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Because Torts wants to be in management and I shared this the other day in a clip and you even liked it. He wanted to be in management with the Blue Jackets and Jarmo wouldn't allow it. He'll replace Clarke and Holmgren as a senior advisor. You can already see the finger prints of what Briere is doing. As for the rebuild/winning games/losing games/blaming players and coaches conundrum, I look at it like this. There's more than enough talent on this roster to be competitive. And I speak for myself here, but that's what I want to see - a competitive team. What aggravates me is that this is also supposed to be a development year. And while some players are doing well in the development curve, some aren't. And those who aren't, are being 'graded' to those who are. You can't do that. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. But that's not being addressed. Instead, they're all being developed in the same manner and when guys don't hit, that's when things go sidewards. On top of that, some guys are getting a pass. I've been vocal about how poor Ersson has been. Mr .898 is getting a pass because "Carter Hart". No, that nonsense needs to end. Sam Ersson is a professional hockey player. Is it too much to ask him to make a save every now and then? And it's just not here that his play was like that. It was also the same in Lehigh Valley. He needs to decide whether he wants to be mediocre or good. And right now, because everyone on the team loves Sam, they aren't pushing him. Yet, a guy like Brink or Lyksell (I know, different positions) are reamed out when they miss an assignment defensively. It's about playing favourites and it's garbage coaching. I've said I could care less if they make or miss the playoffs. Doesn't matter to me. But I want to see consistency across the board from players and coaching and that still isn't happening. That's my biggest gripe right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 @OccamsRazor follow, follow up..... Here what I don't get. You hire Torts for 4 years, he's delivering, and you move him to a management position. That doesn't make any damn sense to me. In fact it resembles the same kind of stupidity that got us the BobbyBunch fiasco. The guy is delivering at his hired position. Leave him there. It seems to me that he was brought in to facilitate this rebuild and revamp the culture. The Flyers have appeared to finally get the concept that they needed to move away from the old style of doing things. Promoting a guy this early is just dumb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 minutes ago, CoachX said: as a follow up, if Torts moves to another position on his own, then I am on board with your POV. Not because I know Shaw would be good, but because I value your opinion I am saying that mostly because of what I have seen him do with these defensemen. He has turned York into the #1 Dman on this squad and made Risto look serviceable which I thought would have never been possible. Plus Ginning and Attard transition into a very good 2nd pair is beyond impressive. I just think he can transform this whole team if giving the reins on his own. I can't wait till Drysdale gets back and he can get back to molding him into the top D man I hope he can be or at least a #2. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 26 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Because Torts wants to be in management and I shared this the other day in a clip and you even liked it. He wanted to be in management with the Blue Jackets and Jarmo wouldn't allow it. actually I hit the Uggh! icon... for all the reasons @CoachX has said. Changing HC now, after the year they had, looking forward to maybe the POs, certainly to next season... Unless Tortorella quits changing coaches would be the height of stupidity by Flyers' management. Not putting it past them but I sure hope they don't. Let him coach till the contract is over - 2 more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 25 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Mr .898 is getting a pass because "Carter Hart". obviously you don't like the guy - that's okay of course. But after the shorty the Rags scored last night you posted something like "Ersson sucks" (paraphrasing) - on a perfect saucer pass across where NO goalie unless it's pure luck makes that save... Tortorella has Ersson and Sandstrom plus flunky or 2 in Lehigh. How is he playing favorites with his goaltenders? 26 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: And while some players are doing well in the development curve, some aren't. And those who aren't, are being 'graded' to those who are. This is interesting but I admit I don't understand it. Maybe you will elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Poulin20 said: My hope with the current management is that they are looking long term to build a winner the proper way. It’s way to early to judge if they will be successful but similar to Hexy their hearts are in the right place and we are going to have to wait and see about how their long term plan unfolds. I hope so too. Having two very late 1st round picks sure isn't going to help though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 37 minutes ago, Fuzz said: I hope so too. Having two very late 1st round picks sure isn't going to help though. There's always the chance of catching lightning in a bottle....it's just highly unlikely. Having multiple picks certainly ups your odds though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, Fuzz said: I hope so too. Having two very late 1st round picks sure isn't going to help though. do you understand anything that drafting anyone isnt going to help this team right now because they need time to develop? this is why this management isnt forcing young players on the roster because they are not ready or they are not good. for some reason, you cant let go of the prospect obsession hoarding and think that it will make a cup contender and that the they have been doing the same crap for decades, what about changing the philosophy and adding players that can play now and maybe this team can finally win a cup like what is so wrong about doing it this way instead of doing it the same way for decades of prospect hoarding and it hasnt worked? Edited March 27 by tucson83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 23 minutes ago, tucson83 said: do you understand anything that drafting anyone isnt going to help this team right now because they need time to develop? this is why this management isnt forcing young players on the roster because they are not ready or they are not good. for some reason, you cant let go of the prospect obsession hoarding and think that it will make a cup contender and that the they have been doing the same crap for decades, what about changing the philosophy and adding players that can play now and maybe this team can finally win a cup like what is so wrong about doing it this way instead of doing it the same way for decades of prospect hoarding and it hasnt worked? Which team are you accusing of prospect hoarding? If is the Flyers I am puzzled to say the least…..Briere/Pronger/Hatcher/Coffee/Primeau/Vorachek/Bryzgalov/Vanbiesbrouk just to name a few off the top of my head. Betterment of this team thru the draft has been anything but the Flyers the last 3 decades…… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 11 minutes ago, flyerrod said: Which team are you accusing of prospect hoarding? If is the Flyers I am puzzled to say the least…..Briere/Pronger/Hatcher/Coffee/Primeau/Vorachek/Bryzgalov/Vanbiesbrouk just to name a few off the top of my head. Betterment of this team thru the draft has been anything but the Flyers the last 3 decades…… Carter, Richards, Giroux, Provorov, Laughton, JVR, Hart, that kid with the broken brain, Lindros (technically), Sharp, Gagne (who was drafted 22nd BTW).... just while seated on my lazy arse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 23 minutes ago, CoachX said: Carter, Richards, Giroux, Provorov, Laughton, JVR, Hart, that kid with the broken brain, Lindros (technically), Sharp, Gagne (who was drafted 22nd BTW).... just while seated on my lazy arse Carter and Richards I give you. My point is this team doesn’t predicate team building through hoarding of picks. They have always traded away multiple picks for a win now mentality. Hextall actually tried to do it but was hamstrung by the good ole boys going oh look Shiny! also how many of those you named above were traded away before you had a real chance to build the team around them with those “hoarded” picks. Edited March 27 by flyerrod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, flyerrod said: Carter and Richards I give you. My point is this team doesn’t predicate team building through hoarding of picks. They have always traded away multiple picks for a win now mentality. Hextall actually tried to do it but was hamstrung by the good ole boys going oh look Shiny! i agree with you. I just couldn't help myself. I like to argue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 @CoachX makes me think of that Monty Python sketch and the ministry of arguments…. I enjoy the give and take around here myself. This place damn sure ain’t an echo chamber. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, CoachX said: Laughton, The truth always reveals itself.....you love him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, tucson83 said: do you understand anything that drafting anyone isnt going to help this team right now because they need time to develop? this is why this management isnt forcing young players on the roster because they are not ready or they are not good. for some reason, you cant let go of the prospect obsession hoarding and think that it will make a cup contender and that the they have been doing the same crap for decades, what about changing the philosophy and adding players that can play now and maybe this team can finally win a cup like what is so wrong about doing it this way instead of doing it the same way for decades of prospect hoarding and it hasnt worked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, flyerrod said: @CoachX makes me think of that Monty Python sketch and the ministry of arguments…. I enjoy the give and take around here myself. This place damn sure ain’t an echo chamber. yeah? well screw you!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: yeah? well screw you!!!!! It was down the hall from the ministry of silly walks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: So if it isn't Shaw then who do you want as the next coach? @OccamsRazor the choice is staring everyone right in their face, “he who is responsible for coaching the worst PP in National Hockey League history.” Philadelphia would love to chant, “Rocky, Rocky, Rocky” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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