Carchidi: Flyers should pursue Vanek

[brelic]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20131017_Flyers_should_pursue_Sabres__Vanek.html

The offensive-challenged Flyers need to add a sniper.

Badly.

Paging Thomas Vanek. Paging Thomas Vanek.

The Buffalo Sabres winger and the Flyers seem like a perfect match.

The Flyers have scored a total of 10 goals - their lowest seven-game total to begin a season in franchise history - and they are off to an unsightly 1-6 start.

Their general manager's fate may be hanging in the balance. Make a move that triggers a turnaround and Paul Holmgren's job could be secure. Miss the playoffs for the second straight year and . . .

Assistant GM Ron Hextall is waiting in the wings.

Which brings us back to Vanek, a 29-year-old right winger who scored 20 goals in 38 games last season and has 253 goals in 593 career games. He can become an unrestricted free agent after this season, and he has dropped broad hints that he does not want to remain with the Sabres if they have a long rebuilding plan.

And that's exactly what seems to be taking place.

The Sabres, like the Flyers, are off to an awful start and are having problems scoring.

So why would they deal Vanek?

Because if he's not going to re-sign with them after the season, they risk losing him and not getting anything in return.

Vanek, a rugged 6-foot-2, 207-pounder who is one of Buffalo's cornerstones, could bring the Sabres several prospects (Scott Laughton? Nick Cousins? Oliver Lauridsen?) and/or draft picks.

He would feel right at home with the Flyers because he was winger Michael Raffl's linemate with Austria at the 2013 IIHF World Championships.

"I've never seen anybody play like he does in front of the net," Raffl said after the Flyers practice Wednesday in Voorhees. "He's unbelievable."

It is worth noting that Buffalo general manager Darcy Regier is reportedly on the hot seat, so if Vanek isn't traded and he ends up signing elsewhere, the seat could get even hotter.

The Flyers didn't score much under Peter Laviolette in the first three games, and they haven't scored much since Craig Berube took over.

"I think we have to be patient and let [berube] implement his system," said Peter Luukko, president of the Flyers' parent company, Comcast-Spectacor. "It makes no sense to panic. We still believe in our players."

The big guns aren't producing. Claude Giroux, Wayne Simmonds, Matt Read, Jake Voracek, Sean Couturier, and Scott Hartnell have yet to hit the back of the net. Hartnell and Vinny Lecavalier are sidelined with injuries.

The Flyers are counting on most of those players to score at least 20 goals. No one is saying that won't happen, just that they need to add a proven scorer. The sooner the better.

"Making a deal for the sake of making a deal is dangerous," Luukko said.

Yes, it would be risky to acquire Vanek - whose $7.1 million cap hit would cause the Flyers to make some auxiliary moves, like including Andrej Meszaros in the deal, to free cap space - because he could sign elsewhere after the season. The Flyers need to take that risk. Roll the dice and make re-signing him a priority. The cap is going up after the season, and the Flyers will have Kimmo Timonen ($6 million) and Meszaros ($4 million) coming off the books.

This team has dealt away lots of offense in recent years (Jeff Carter, James van Riemsdyk, Joffrey Lupul, Mike Richards) and now needs to add a proven scorer and a great leader.

Holmgren said he was talking with other general managers, and not just because his team is off to a horrid start.

"Whether we're 1-6 or 6-1, I wouldn't be doing due diligence if I wasn't looking around to try to improve the team," he said Wednesday.

He added that the Flyers already "did the drastic thing by making a coaching change."

Another drastic move is needed.

The general manager's job may depend on it.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20131017_Flyers_should_pursue_Sabres__Vanek.html#TvyAhswxiYJAxDzS.99

[Bertmega]

He is 29, will command 7+ mm a year (which no matter how you slice it, the Flyers do not have), and he has expressed interest in going to the Wild. 

 

Now what exactly is their top scorer going to cost Philly realistically? My guess more in the long run, as in a blue chip prospect (Laughton, Cousins), a roster player that they can plug in his spot (Simmonds or Couturier), and since it's Paul F'n Holmgren there will certainly be a 2nd round pick involved.  Way too much in my book. 

 

I would do it if they would take salary back as in Hartnell (assuming he waives his NTC/NMC)

 

At the end of the day Buffalo is in the same situation as Philly and they are not going to let their top pending UFA go for nothing. I say make no trade and have these jokers play hockey like they know what they are doing. 

[brelic]

At least in this article, it seems like the Lukko gets it.

[ruxpin]

I agree with @Bertmega

 

As attractive as Vanek is, I don't  think it's a good idea.  Just stay the course, as painful as I expect that will be.

 

I think it is interesting, though, that it is Luukko making comments on it.   I think that is the part that may actually be news worthy.

[mojo1917]

no prospects for a rental. ever

this is not intriguing to me in the least , if Homer pulls the trigger on a deal for Vanek where we're giving up prospects and roster players and picks he ought to not just be fired but shot.

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

I say no. This franchise's problem in large part is that we trade for other franchise's top picks instead of growing our own. We need to stop playing the game, even if it is painful short-term.  One of the few positives that could come out of this season (likely to be a bummer) is that realization--which could and should cost Holmgren his job. On paper this team should be better given the pedigree of many players...Voracek, Schenn,..etc. But they have not grown together. Importing another high-priced, older player is the last thing we should do.  If anything, we are probably going to take peanuts for dumping some of these folks with a long-term rebuild in mind.

 

Peace,

Howie

[murraycraven]

He is 29, will command 7+ mm a year (which no matter how you slice it, the Flyers do not have), and he has expressed interest in going to the Wild. 

 

Now what exactly is their top scorer going to cost Philly realistically? My guess more in the long run, as in a blue chip prospect (Laughton, Cousins), a roster player that they can plug in his spot (Simmonds or Couturier), and since it's Paul F'n Holmgren there will certainly be a 2nd round pick involved.  Way too much in my book. 

 

I would do it if they would take salary back as in Hartnell (assuming he waives his NTC/NMC)

 

At the end of the day Buffalo is in the same situation as Philly and they are not going to let their top pending UFA go for nothing. I say make no trade and have these jokers play hockey like they know what they are doing. 

 

 

Well said Bert...  Could not have summed it up any better myself.

 

I like Vanek and think G would benefit greatly with him on the line but 7M a year is a lot and the Flyers would have to move some cash going the other way in a trade.  His desire to play for the Wild is well known and I would refuse to give up young talent for a rental player.  

 

Maybe I am wrong here but I am pretty much writing off this year and hoping no panic moves are made.   Maybe they will turn it around but I just dont see this team as a playoff team (even when healthy).  My eyes are looking to the draft to see if we can add a skilled sniper.  This Team needs someone who knows how to put the puck in the net.   I think the Draft is the only way b/c right now they are in a position of weakness in any trade.  Every Team is going to try and poach Cooter, Schenn, Read, etc...   Let the kids play and look to fix it in the draft as they have no shot at contending.

Edited October 17, 2013 by murraycraven

[TarHeelFlyer]

I have a completely different perspective on this than I think anyone here.  

 

First, I don't think Vanek's age is a large factor here.  At 29 he is still one year younger than Briere was when we got him and he gave us some good years.  Obviously I would have loved to have gotten better regular seasons from him, but he was lights out come playoff time.  

 

Second, I think Vanek makes Giroux instantly better and he makes Vinnie instantly better.  Giroux gets better because he gets an elite teammate who is still in his prime.  Vinnie gets better because he gets a guy on his line who used to be on the first line...assuming he isn't moved in the trade.

 

Third, I think getting him is a great idea, assuming you can find a financial deal which works for the team.  I don't think he needs to be paid 7 million per anymore, if we can get the average hit down to a more reasonable number, it might make sense.

 

Fourth, to me the deal comes down to cost.  I don't know if I'm willing to move Couturier, Coburn, and a first for him, especially with how high our first could potentially be this year, but if you make that a 2nd, I would have to consider it for sure.  I would like it even better if they would take Meszaros instead of Coburn, but would be okay with either one.  

 

Fifth, the thing I DON'T like about the trade would be it is a "win now" type of move.  Personally, I think we might need to move into more of a win 2-3 years from now mode.  So the question for me becomes one of....do we do this now, or should we wait.  Maybe we need to give some of our young guys a shot first.  Guys like Akeson, Cousins, and Straka.  Yeah, I know Straka doesn't play a lick of D, but put him on a line with guys who are responsible defensively and lets see if he can learn it here AND score some goals.

[radoran]

The Sabres would be roasted by their fanbase if they dropped Vanek for Scott Laughton, Nick Cousins and Oliver Lauridsen.

 

A top line sniper for three guys who still can't get NHL ice time?

 

Don't think Vanek is "a fit" for the Flyers. I like the player, but don't see him as "a Flyer."

[brelic]

Fifth, the thing I DON'T like about the trade would be it is a "win now" type of move.  Personally, I think we might need to move into more of a win 2-3 years from now mode.  So the question for me becomes one of....do we do this now, or should we wait.  Maybe we need to give some of our young guys a shot first.  Guys like Akeson, Cousins, and Straka.  Yeah, I know Straka doesn't play a lick of D, but put him on a line with guys who are responsible defensively and lets see if he can learn it here AND score some goals.

This is the primary reason I would not make this trade. You get a guy like Vanek when your window is open right now. You know, Boston, Chicago (not that they need him), Vancouver, San Jose, LA.

I would much prefer to get a really good look at Akeson, Cousins and Straka instead of once again pushing our guys out with older vets from other teams. It hasn't worked for us.

[JackStraw]

Don't think Vanek is "a fit" for the Flyers. I like the player, but don't see him as "a Flyer."

 

"A Flyer" being all the players the Flyers have been going after since 1975 that have failed to win a Stanley Cup? Is that what "a Flyer" is?

[radoran]

"A Flyer" being all the players the Flyers have been going after since 1975 that have failed to win a Stanley Cup? Is that what "a Flyer" is?

 

I debated putting that in quotes.

 

It could be that it turns out he wants to commit to the Flyers - and not to, for example, the Sabres or the Wild - and that the Flyers want to spend the money on him.

 

Having watched a lot of Sabres games, I just don't see him as a player the fans will warm to as "a Flyer." He's inconsistent and frequently injured.

[canoli]

Forget about acquiring Vanek, forget any trades right now. Jeez when are we going to quit this nonsense? Bringing in guys who supposedly will spark the offense. Christ sakes Sam the problem isn't scoring goals the problem is there's no organization, no purpose to their shifts right now - everybody's winging it, especially on the PP. That's to be expected with a new HC; they're all trying to impress him and lock in their ice time; meanwhile things that make a winning shift aren't getting done consistently, things players are supposed to do away from the puck. We've seen it every game; the fundamentals are shaky - passing, skating hard, going to the net for rebounds, hustling on the backcheck, puck support coming up ice. The last 2 games have been better but the mistakes, especially the bad passing and the dumb penalties are killing them - and losing games for them.

 

I'm sick of watching the Flyers screw around with the roster. Of course we can always improve, of course there are better players out there who we could trade for. That will always be true. When the hell do we finally just stick with the guys we have and let them develop some identitiy, some chemistry, some familiarity with each other? So that eventually they actually will play well together. 

[JackStraw]

I debated putting that in quotes.

 

It could be that it turns out he wants to commit to the Flyers - and not to, for example, the Sabres or the Wild - and that the Flyers want to spend the money on him.

 

Having watched a lot of Sabres games, I just don't see him as a player the fans will warm to as "a Flyer." He's inconsistent and frequently injured.

 

Can't argue with that. He's kind of the type of player that the team needs, but the specifics of the here and now (the team's and his) probably make it not a great fit.

[AndyS]

This is the primary reason I would not make this trade. You get a guy like Vanek when your window is open right now. You know, Boston, Chicago (not that they need him), Vancouver, San Jose, LA.

I would much prefer to get a really good look at Akeson, Cousins and Straka instead of once again pushing our guys out with older vets from other teams. It hasn't worked for us.

 

I don't understand why Cousins & Straka aren't on this team right now.

 

Heck, I'd like to see those two Defensemen we just drafted with our top 2 picks starting with this team right now. [Ducks]

[ruxpin]

My eyes are looking to the draft to see if we can add a skilled sniper

 

Not very many of those at CENTER.   (CENTRE, for our Canadian friends)

[The Quigster]

My personal opinion is one of the Flyer's major weakness are the European players. They just don't seem to have bonafide NHL Moxie.  Maybe the KHL would be interested?

[FreakinFlyersFan]

No, to a 30yr old, $7mil a year European player.....sounds familiar to us Flyers fans ...no?

[doom88]

No thanks on Vanek.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Carchidi is a clown and a hack. this is gibberish.