Take a mulligan on which trade?

[off_the_post]

So which trade hurt the organization the most?  Sorry I am tired of rehashing how bad they are so I thought I'd beat this dead horse again.

 

1. JVR for Luke  Schenn

2. Richards for Simmons and Schenn

3. Carter for Voreck and Coutourier

 

PS - I hate this team so much now I can't even bother to look up the correct spelling of their names.  I say Richards for Simmons and Schenn.  I would take Richards and McGinn right now over Simmons and Schenn.

 

Simmons is playing like a 4th liner at best and Schenn should be playing in the AHL.

 

[ruxpin]

Lavy for Berube

[ruxpin]

I didn't see tonight's game, but not sure why Braden Scene is getting fire. He's usually one of the very very few who bother to show up.

[King Knut]

Richards.

Carter close 2nd.

JVR is just a head scratcher.

More than any of them, for me it was losing jagr, Carle and gagne for no good reason.

At all.

So which trade hurt the organization the most? Sorry I am tired of rehashing how bad they are so I thought I'd beat this dead horse again.

1. JVR for Luke Schenn

2. Richards for Simmons and Schenn

3. Carter for Voreck and Coutourier

PS - I hate this team so much now I can't even bother to look up the correct spelling of their names. I say Richards for Simmons and Schenn. I would take Richards and McGinn right now over Simmons and Schenn.

Simmons is playing like a 4th liner at best and Schenn should be playing in the AHL.

[FD19372]

Off the post,

 

Of the three you mentioned, definitely Richards for Simmonds and Schenn.  Had no problem with them getting rid of Jeff "high and wide", Carter but they miss Mike Richards leadership and grit badly. Just because he and Carter hung out in Sea Isle and Margate, New Jersey too much, and acted like typical guys their age.   Simmonds and Schenn have regressed since they've been here, and with apologies to Ian Lapperierre who I liked as a player, I don't see these guys getting any better ever with the coaching staff they have in place.

[off_the_post]

Off the post,

 

Of the three you mentioned, definitely Richards for Simmonds and Schenn.  Had no problem with them getting rid of Jeff "high and wide", Carter but they miss Mike Richards leadership and grit badly. Just because he and Carter hung out in Sea Isle and Margate, New Jersey too much, and acted like typical guys their age.   Simmonds and Schenn have regressed since they've been here, and with apologies to Ian Lapperierre who I liked as a player, I don't see these guys getting any better ever with the coaching staff they have in place.

Yes this is pretty much how I feel. I miss Richards right now.  I guess I better put the Kings game on.

[OH1FlyersFan]

Theoretically, on paper, I like all of those trades - especially for the reasons they were made at the time they were made.  There's absolutely no explanation for why quality players like Simmonds and Voracek are playing as poorly as they are.  There's also no excuse.  B. Schenn and Coutourier have huge potential.  Or I thought they did.  I bet they still do.  Like all Flyers if we let them go, they will go on to have hall of fame careers playing for other teams.  Looking at those four, the ROI has great potential and we should be realizing that.  For some unknown reason we aren't.  It's mind-boggling.  Maybe they're all just that much over-rated or over-valued.  I tend to not be sold on that point of view quite yet, but could be convinced of it in the future if the production doesn't pick up soon.  There are others on this team, though, who I think are - players like Streit that we signed for God only knows what reason.

 

If I had to pick from your list, I would say the one mulligan I'd take is the JVR - L. Schenn trade.  Luke's kinda been MIA, not sure his potential is as strong as the others either, and it might be nice to have the scoring potential of JVR back on this team.

[ruxpin]

Theoretically, on paper, I like all of those trades - especially for the reasons they were made at the time they were made. There's absolutely no explanation for why quality players like Simmonds and Voracek are playing as poorly as they are. There's also no excuse. B. Schenn and Coutourier have huge potential. Or I thought they did. I bet they still do. Like all Flyers if we let them go, they will go on to have hall of fame careers playing for other teams. Looking at those four, the ROI has great potential and we should be realizing that. For some unknown reason we aren't. It's mind-boggling. Maybe they're all just that much over-rated or over-valued. I tend to not be sold on that point of view quite yet, but could be convinced of it in the future if the production doesn't pick up soon. There are others on this team, though, who I think are - players like Streit that we signed for God only knows what reason.

If I had to pick from your list, I would say the one mulligan I'd take is the JVR - L. Schenn trade. Luke's kinda been MIA, not sure his potential is as strong as the others either, and it might be nice to have the scoring potential of JVR back on this team.

I agree with everything you said. However, I can't shake the belief that if JVR were still here he would absolutely suck right now. Actually, I bet his career would be all but a complete waste right now. That trade was the best thing that ever happened to him.

[jammer2]

I agree with everything you said. However, I can't shake the belief that if JVR were still here he would absolutely suck right now. Actually, I bet his career would be all but a complete waste right now. That trade was the best thing that ever happened to him.

 

 I agree rux, JVR had to go. It was not working out in Philly. I think the trade woke him, made him realize he's expendable...and that you have to produce in this league. He's driving the net harder than ever, with startling consistency. This would have never happened in Philly...he was just floating with no sense of urgency. I just think potential wise, we did not get a fair return. I was down on Luke before he even got here. He's not a smart player, combined with his super slow feet, we got ripped off. Toronto seen us coming.

[ruxpin]

I agree rux, JVR had to go. It was not working out in Philly. I think the trade woke him, made him realize he's expendable...and that you have to produce in this league. He's driving the net harder than ever, with startling consistency. This would have never happened in Philly...he was just floating with no sense of urgency. I just think potential wise, we did not get a fair return. I was down on Luke before he even got here. He's not a smart player, combined with his super slow feet, we got ripped off. Toronto seen us coming.

Agree. Definitely not defending the trade at this point. Yes, JVR needed a wake up, but I was actually being darker than that. Ordinarily, the wake up is so a player gets better. In this case, I really believe he would have gotten worse--as they have ALL gotten worse.

There is absolutely some kind of cancer going on here in Philly. I don't know if it's a who or a what but something is terribly, horribly wrong (to elaborate on the obvious). I don't know if this team is even better than average on paper, but they should be a 500ish team. No one is playing well. No one. I really don't understand what it is, but something is REALLY wrong.

By the way, I'm on my phone and don't know if someone has posted but TSN is reporting a private closed door post-game meeting between Snider and Giroux. That's just a little weird, isn't it?

[ruxpin]

This seems as good a place as any to mention that I even hate the flyers broadcast team

[wcflyer]

The one player we lost not through trade that hurt us the most was losing Pronger, after he went out that's when things started to go downhill. Thumbs up to Homer for trying to replace him, things may be different if we had Shea Webber in a Flyer uniform, but it was a long shot.  Had Pronger's career not ended we may have had all the mentioned players yet.  But that was not the case either.  I miss Richards the most, his grit and offence, then  Carter's offence, yes he missed a lot of shots but at least he shot the puck and JVR may not be the beast we expected but I'm still thinking he could be a 20-25 goal scorer. In a decent year those 3 players could produce at least 75 goals.

[The Quigster]

The one person nobody discusses is Clarkie. This team has Clarkie's fingerprints all over it,his 90's teams were really Farwell's draft picks. 06-07 really resembles 13-14,he couldn't handle Lindro's parents,got rid of a few pretty good players, kind of like JVR for Luke Schenn. Maybe we will just have to wait?

[TimKerrFan12]

Yeah definitely Richards trade.

[murraycraven]

Richards...

[brelic]

The Richards trade, for sure. He was the captain and leader of this team until Pronger came along.

@OH1FlyersFan You say you like those trades especially for the reasons they were made at the time, but I don't think the team really ever properly explained why it traded away its captain and leading goal scorer to whom they had committed 23 years and over $100M. It just makes no sense, and they never really told the fans why. I mean, they made up a bunch of stuff, but the whole thing is just bizarre.

No other organization in the NHL functions that way.

[Samifan]

Richards.

[King Knut]

I do find it hilarious that Richards was gleefully dispatched by many on this board for his presumed lack of grit and leadership an laziness.

[radoran]

 I agree rux, JVR had to go. It was not working out in Philly. I think the trade woke him, made him realize he's expendable...and that you have to produce in this league. He's driving the net harder than ever, with startling consistency. This would have never happened in Philly...he was just floating with no sense of urgency. I just think potential wise, we did not get a fair return. I was down on Luke before he even got here. He's not a smart player, combined with his super slow feet, we got ripped off. Toronto seen us coming.

 

So, you're saying the Flyers are horrible at developing players? If you're not, I am. Because they are.

 

The Flyers have traded the first round picks they chose 10 times since 1998. Two more they traded before they made a pick.  Twice they brought the player back (Gagne, Downie).

 

That leaves Giroux, Couturier, Laughton and Morin. And there's all sorts of buzz on Giroux and Couturier...

 

Why bother to draft at all?

[pilldoc]

Why bother to draft at all?

Because it's in the rules.

Seriously this all goes back to the knee jerk mentality this organization has. I have said it before and I will say it again....they have NO plan. It is painfully evident for all of us to see.

Sadly until Homer and Ed move on this style of thinking will not change.

[radoran]

Because it's in the rules.

Seriously this all goes back to the knee jerk mentality this organization has. I have said it before and I will say it again....they have NO plan. It is painfully evident for all of us to see.

Sadly until Homer and Ed move on this style of thinking will not change.

 

Well, and that's the problem with the trades. The moves are made and they "look good" in the moment that they happen. They're made for reactionary reasons with a total lack of patience. They are addressing a "need" that exists because they won't wait to fill it - it has to be filled now. Preferably this immediate need also needs to be filled with a long term multi year contract with a clause that makes it difficult to get out from under.

 

I am sick to death of hearing what an OK trade the JVR deal was and how JVR just needed that change of scenery. Everybody here would benefit from a change of scenery because the "winning culture" of this organization is a joke. JVR scored 21 as a sophomore in this league. He's projected to be a 30+ guy and is playing like it. The whole "change of scenery" mantra is an excuse for this organization's ineptitude.

 

JVR "wasn't producing" and "looked like he was floating" and all the other stuff we can say about a guy who, after all, only scored 21 goals as a second year player - for an organization that can't figure out how to run the same lines for more than a handful of shifts. Was it a reflection on JVR? Looks a heckuva lot more to me that it's a reflection of this organization's failures.

 

EVERYBODY who gets traded "wasn't a big loss" and "we got good value for" and all the other blah blah blah nonsense. The ice is always smoother, the Flyers always make the right moves and the player we lost wasn't going to be very good and we're glad he's gone.

 

The Flyers are incapable of developing players. If I'm Scott Laughton and Sam Morin, I'm staying in Junior and hoping like hell I get sent somewhere else to play in the NHL.

[off_the_post]

So, you're saying the Flyers are horrible at developing players? If you're not, I am. Because they are.

 

The Flyers have traded the first round picks they chose 10 times since 1998. Two more they traded before they made a pick.  Twice they brought the player back (Gagne, Downie).

 

That leaves Giroux, Couturier, Laughton and Morin. And there's all sorts of buzz on Giroux and Couturier...

 

Why bother to draft at all?

LOL. Not only should the flyers not draft but perhaps they should elect to play the entire game short handed.  At least that would give them a reason for not generating any offence.

[fanaticV3.0]

So which trade hurt the organization the most?  Sorry I am tired of rehashing how bad they are so I thought I'd beat this dead horse again.

 

1. JVR for Luke  Schenn

2. Richards for Simmons and Schenn

3. Carter for Voreck and Coutourier

 

PS - I hate this team so much now I can't even bother to look up the correct spelling of their names.  I say Richards for Simmons and Schenn.  I would take Richards and McGinn right now over Simmons and Schenn.

 

Simmons is playing like a 4th liner at best and Schenn should be playing in the AHL.

 

Schenn has been one of their better forwards this year, so I'm not sure how that's your pick. Bad year aside, him and Simmonds have easily been the biggest producers of those three trades. I got with JVR for Luke Schenn.

[Phillygrump]

So which trade hurt the organization the most? Sorry I am tired of rehashing how bad they are so I thought I'd beat this dead horse again.

1. JVR for Luke Schenn

2. Richards for Simmons and Schenn

3. Carter for Voreck and Coutourier

PS - I hate this team so much now I can't even bother to look up the correct spelling of their names. I say Richards for Simmons and Schenn. I would take Richards and McGinn right now over Simmons and Schenn.

Simmons is playing like a 4th liner at best and Schenn should be playing in the AHL.

The Forsberg trade?

[fanaticV3.0]

The Richards trade, for sure. He was the captain and leader of this team until Pronger came along.

@OH1FlyersFan You say you like those trades especially for the reasons they were made at the time, but I don't think the team really ever properly explained why it traded away its captain and leading goal scorer to whom they had committed 23 years and over $100M. It just makes no sense, and they never really told the fans why. I mean, they made up a bunch of stuff, but the whole thing is just bizarre.

No other organization in the NHL functions that way.

 

So it's Pronger's fault Richards turned into a whiny and generally poor captain?