Bertmega Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 @Polaris922 "I'd be shocked if Laviolette wanted Lecavalier... Absolutely stunned. " Lavy was the one petitioning Holmgren to sign him in the off season. And if I were a guessing man, that is probably one of the many reasons that got him canned after three games. The guy he pushed for shows up to camp with a fat contract and out of shape..... Now in Nashville, Poile probably will not give Lavy the same influence with the FA market. That and the Weber debacle tells me that Nashville is not going to willingly deal with Philadelphia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Put G at LW, and that actually could work. Great minds, doom... Great. Minds. Based upon what they have signed this may very well be the best setup for them. Giroux-VLC-VoracekUmburglar-Schenn-SimmondsRead-Couturier-RafflRinaldo-Akeson-Rosehill Could slot a "surprising" Laughton in for Raffl and drop Rosehill for Raffl on the 4th, for example. I wouldn't have Laughton up to take garbage time minutes on the fourth, and it doesn't appear Hextall wants to, either. However, they will never - never - move the center they drafted as a wing to wing because he's a natural center and always has been. This *has* to be an embarrassing time for Homer. To see his signing from last year create such a problem for the team.. They just dealt one of his six year deals, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 They just dealt one of his six year deals, too. Bought out 2 other longterm deals, traded 2 more 3 more and have yet another on LTIR. That's some nice work right there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Howdy: Yest, this is not one of Homer's finest hours. I seem to recall the Rathje-Hatcher signing going south and people dumping on Clarke as well...that he didn't see the "New NHL" coming and signed two old, slow pylons (at least Hatcher was serviceable and a great role model). That said, you wonder if this is a position that hanging on too long is a bad thing. But I also wonder what it means about the management team? This is one that might have seen dubious to 3/4 of the folks on this board. Why didn't some insiders says, "Homer, here is a guy with declining productivity.......we should either leave him alone or do a short contract?" He either didn't listen or there wasn't much internal debate. The latter scares me as much as the former....and may be a good indicator it was time to go. Best, Howie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilsFanDrew Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 You know... I will be probably get laughed off this board, but I think the best place they can put Vinny is on the 1st line with G and Voracek. Honestly. There is just absolutely no other spot for him. He can't replace Coots on the third line because playing on a checking/shut-down line is just not his specialty. He can't play on the 2nd line with Simmer and Schenn either; they tried that experiment and it failed. And you can't play the guy who makes so much money on the 4th line as it just doesn't make any sense... You can yell at me and you can laugh at me, but what do the Flyers have to lose at this point? I know it's not ideal, but I really believe the 1st line would be the best of two worlds. I totally agree. In a perfect world the Flyers would have spent the money they signed on VLC to get a top line winger to play with G and Jake. Yeah its not ideal to ask you best player to change positions to accommodate an aging/declining center but to me its the most viable option and at least is worth trying early on. With that said if G gets off to a slow start and its not working they have to pull the plug early and go back to VLC on the 4th line and a PP specialist. Hopefully a team will be more desperate at the trade deadline and a deal can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Bought out 2 other longterm deals, traded 2 more 3 more and have yet another on LTIR. That's some nice work right there. That's some disastrous GM'ing right there. And the most amazing thing is, the guy is still with the team making some executive decisions. There is just no sense of accountability with this franchise.... EVER. Yet, in the words of The Old Man, "We don't need a fresh perspective". Disgusting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I totally agree. In a perfect world the Flyers would have spent the money they signed on VLC to get a top line winger to play with G and Jake. Yeah its not ideal to ask you best player to change positions to accommodate an aging/declining center but to me its the most viable option and at least is worth trying early on. With that said if G gets off to a slow start and its not working they have to pull the plug early and go back to VLC on the 4th line and a PP specialist. Hopefully a team will be more desperate at the trade deadline and a deal can be made. If G gets off to another slow start, mark my words - this team will be dismantled early on in the season. Not saying this would be the right decision, but that's what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 We all talk about him and the press talks about him like he's this dead albatross and that any team taking him would basically be doing it out of charity. But honestly, I kinda feel like if the guy were on a team that needed a #2 center, he'd probably not be a terribly bad deal. If you put Shea Weber on the wing he wouldn't be worth his money either. A forward should do better than VLC did, but seriously I think he'd help a lot of teams at center. I think he'd help the flyers at center if they could put him there. In 2 or three years it won't be any good no matter what and that's the real crap of the contract, but really, I think if he can play Center he'll make any team better and out up pretty good numbers over a season. I.e. Nashville should really legitimately be going for him. In fact the only good reason I can think of as to why they haven't is spite. Helping out the Flyers is probably low on their priority list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 @King Knut If there is a team looking for an often injured, overpaid floater, look no further...you have found your man!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I won't laugh cause it's likely the best place for Vinnie. The problem is it's not the best place for our best and most important player. This just makes sense. As much as I'd love to make VInny more useful, I don't think you move your franchise center to the wing to accommodate Vinnie. Giroux sees the ice better from the center position and has nice chemistry with Vorachek from that position. I'm not willing to give that up so VLC can be the lazy factor on the Flyers most important trio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyS Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Or the Senators. Seems hard to believe that no team wants the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think he could work as 2nd line center, and I like that Hextall is willing to go with the status quo instead of taking a bad deal. Umberger/G/Jake (based on the STH meeting information, sounds like Umby is a legit option on the top line)Simmonds/Coots/ReadSchenn/VLC/RafflAkeson/Laughton/Bellemare Seems weird, but who knows? Based on TOI, Coots is the 2nd line center, and giving him a goal scorer like Simmonds might help him grow his offensive game. I'm all for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Not at all a question of "no team wants him" much more a quedtion of "no team willing to help the Flyers by picking up their mess for cheap."There are definitely teams that need a 2 center, but why go with the guy who just had his fourth bad full season in a row? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think he could work as 2nd line center, and I like that Hextall is willing to go with the status quo instead of taking a bad deal. Umberger/G/Jake (based on the STH meeting information, sounds like Umby is a legit option on the top line)Simmonds/Coots/ReadSchenn/VLC/RafflAkeson/Laughton/Bellemare Seems weird, but who knows? Based on TOI, Coots is the 2nd line center, and giving him a goal scorer like Simmonds might help him grow his offensive game. I'm all for that. does seem weird but looks like a legit 3rd scoring line......however..isn't the purpose of the 3rd line to shut down the opposing top line? If so I see Vinny as a liability.. Moving Schenn down to the 3rd line. I thought the Flyers wanted to see if he would shine more this year. Seems counter productive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 the guy who just had his fourth bad full season in a row we all know you grade kinda harshly Rad but ... 65 games, 54 pts - 64 games, 49 pts. - Lockout Year 39 games, 32 pts. - last year with the Flyers, 69 games, 37 pts. Are those 4 years really "bad" years? Yes - compared to VLC of 10 years ago. And yes they're not $4.5mil seasons. But all in all those aren't terrible numbers. And last year we have the "injured all season" excuse going. Anyway the point being I think KT is right, VLC still has value to the right team - just not the Flyers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 does seem weird but looks like a legit 3rd scoring line......however..isn't the purpose of the 3rd line to shut down the opposing top line? If so I see Vinny as a liability.. Moving Schenn down to the 3rd line. I thought the Flyers wanted to see if he would shine more this year. Seems counter productive to me. I listed the lines more based on TOI rather than roles... I'm not sure who will be doing what with the personnel we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 @brelic ahh gotcha...sorry for the confusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Not at all a question of "no team wants him" much more a quedtion of "no team willing to help the Flyers by picking up their mess for cheap."There are definitely teams that need a 2 center, but why go with the guy who just had his fourth bad full season in a row? I sort of agree with @canoli. If I can put blinders on injuries and inconsitent effort, and look *just* at stats, I don't know if it's fair to say he had "bad years". You laso need to take into consideration an aging factor. Not saying this was a brilliant contract or signing him was even remotely justified in the first place. But given the fact he is already here and that getting rid of him would be an equivalent of a miracle, the Flyers need to figure out the way to find a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 we all know you grade kinda harshly Rad but ... 65 games, 54 pts - 64 games, 49 pts. - Lockout Year 39 games, 32 pts. - last year with the Flyers, 69 games, 37 pts. Are those 4 years really "bad" years? Yes - compared to VLC of 10 years ago. And yes they're not $4.5mil seasons. But all in all those aren't terrible numbers. And last year we have the "injured all season" excuse going. Anyway the point being I think KT is right, VLC still has value to the right team - just not the Flyers! "Bad" might not be as descriptive a term as possible. But it was his fourth full season in a row that his production has dropped. He hasn't played an injury-free season of any type since 09-10. That's not "grading harshly" that's "grading." His 70-point season is all well and good, but that's a long time ago in 34-year-old hockey player terms. He wasn't even a 20/50 player last season, which is pretty much the benchmark for $4M - to say nothing of $4.5M - forwards. And I specifically started the post with the line you cut out that it isn't that he "has no value" just that teams aren't lining up to take the Flyers' problem off their hands for nothing. They want something - retained salary, draft pick, etc. There ARE teams that wouldn't mind having VLC on their team, but they're not ponying up $4.5M a year in cap space to have him for the next four years. I believe that Hextall could have made a deal, but that he didn't find a deal he wanted to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I sort of agree with @canoli. If I can put blinders on injuries and inconsitent effort, and look *just* at stats, I don't know if it's fair to say he had "bad years". You laso need to take into consideration an aging factor. Not saying this was a brilliant contract or signing him was even remotely justified in the first place. But given the fact he is already here and that getting rid of him would be an equivalent of a miracle, the Flyers need to figure out the way to find a solution. I can sort of agree, too. But if you see a player who had 70 points in 82 games in 09-10 and hasn't hit that mark again, while seeing his production dip every full season since to the point where he had 37 points in 69 games and still hasn't played an injury-free season since that's not a trend line that I'm looking at as a GM and going "yeah, give me that for four more years" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 This just makes sense. As much as I'd love to make VInny more useful, I don't think you move your franchise center to the wing to accommodate Vinnie. Giroux sees the ice better from the center position and has nice chemistry with Vorachek from that position. I'm not willing to give that up so VLC can be the lazy factor on the Flyers most important trio. The 44.6% FO% doesn't really instill one with confidence that he's going to be an effective #1 (much less #2), either. Agreed that just because that might make the most sense for VLC, it doesn't make the most sense for the Flyers. There simply is no role for him on this team. There wasn't when he was signed. There won't be 2, 3, 4 years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter puck Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 How about sliding Coots over to the wing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think it's a marketing matter. The sales pitch goes like this:"Last season's 20 goals is meh, not quite bad. But put the guy in the middle again and watch him soar. Hell, look what he did for us on the 4th line at C? We'll be hating you for all the production he'll give your team, but that's himer's dumb ass fault, and we have no kne to blame but ourselves. Don't screw your team our of a great center because Homer was an idiot. He's a steal, I hate you already for what he's going to do for you!"Not at all a question of "no team wants him" much more a quedtion of "no team willing to help the Flyers by picking up their mess for cheap."There are definitely teams that need a 2 center, but why go with the guy who just had his fourth bad full season in a row? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think it's a marketing matter. You can market all you want, the tough part is convincing any other GM that he will be on the ice for the entire year. He is now officially injury prone. His back is a mess, along with the many other ailments. There is just better, cheaper options out there available for a trade. When you factor in the floating, it's a very tough sell. For instance, the Islanders have 5 legit centers, Bailey is young, still rising in the points, has upside and is signed until 2018 for 3.3 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 How about sliding Coots over to the wing? I think Cooter is a natural center. There is no way we should mess with this kid to accommodate VLC...he's a part of the future, VLC is not, so makes no sense making big changes based on fitting VLC in for a year or so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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