idahophilly Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 @radoran And I was just making a statement to Jack. Besides, you already knew the answer to your own question so no harm either way... I think Hakstol just wanted to visit Europe on the Flyer's dime! OK, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 One could argue that it will be. 8 million won't be what it is now and there are plenty of guys still producing and performing well at 35 and our 2 guys will be coming off the books right at that time, if the Flyers so choose... I don't think the cap has jumped as fast as some once thought. As companies throughout the US continue to downsize and hold status quo it is hard for me to believe the cap is really going to take a huge leap forward. Again not that Jake's deal is horrible, but a 6 year deal would be much better for the Flyers as players such as some of the recent draft picks should be the teams stars 5-6 years from now and should be deserving of that big contract also. Teams really only have room for a few of those before juggling on a tight wire like the Penguins have done in recent seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 @hf101 I would have preferred 6 yrs myself. And the economy isn't nearly as robust as the press or administration says so your right, the cap might not go up as much as expected. Oh well, guess we are stuck with it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 @radoran And I was just making a statement to Jack. Besides, you already knew the answer to your own question so no harm either way... I think Hakstol just wanted to visit Europe on the Flyer's dime! OK, maybe not.Jake said Hakstol liked Czech cooking.Jack and I discussed that when Occams posted the link and interview in the Other Thread earlier today.You know, the one where I said I really liked Jake and hoped they re-signed him.Just for "context" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 @radoran I didn't say you don't like V. Take it easy on the context thing. I'm just saying there are people that are not going to like the deal no matter what. I think that's pretty fair to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 @radoran I didn't say you don't like V. Take it easy on the context thing. I'm just saying there are people that are not going to like the deal no matter what. I think that's pretty fair to say.Right, but you specifically referenced MY post in your "statement" to Jack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Oh, I see what the problem is. You think I care... Well, I don't because that was an absolute nothing thing to me. I'll take care of this elsewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 According to Meltzer... http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=776043I don't HATE the deal, but I think the Flyers bet against themselves here. They had time, but they're figuring jake goes out and does it again THIS year, only increasing his value. Sign him now, before the season, does have negotiating merits.We could all be seeing it the same way in about 9 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Howdy: So, we lock in Coots and Jake. I hope these folks payoff. But we need to dump salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 This is just the cost of doing business. Getting a player who is a top ten scorer, that is the end game for every GM.....so trading him, yeah...it would save cap space, but the return would never match his output. Jake had the Flyers over a barrel. Ignore him and the Flyers lose him for nothing, low ball him and the Flyers lose him for nothing....this is not a McDud kinda thing. He is a legit top 10 scorer, regardless of him only doing it once, it put him in a GREAT bargaining position. 8+ was to much, but on the bright side, we still have only seen the tip of the iceberg....he still has lots of upside, which was certainly figured into the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
926 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Yeesh, great agent, wonder how many times Hexy gonna be working with him in the near future. What was behind door number 2? This is the type of deal so many grew tired of dealing with...<br /><br />These longballs have not worked for this org -- except for Timo -- and so they begin to see another highly skilled ironman. This winger really gonna play 700 more games for us at a PPG? Is that more realistic than plugging in Simmonds after next season on the top line and marketing the crap outta yer blueliners to drive tics? If you can trade Jake from this non-contending team for the next younger cheaper underperforming Voraceck, all the more Godfatherish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Let's hopE that Jake does not suffer from the dreaded "trying to live up to his contract" anxiety.Like I said before: as it stands now this is an overpayment but might be fine in a year or two. Only time will tell.If Homer signed Jake to this deal I think a lot more people would be pissing and moaning at the term and AAV.Is it market value? Maybe... is.it an overpayment as it stands today? Absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 @murraycraven Well if Jake's golf game is an indication of "trying to live up to his contract" -- we are in trouble. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 If Homer signed Jake to this deal I think a lot more people would be pissing and moaning at the term and AAV. Homer would have given that deal to some overrated UFA instead. And I'd be pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 @murraycravenWell if Jake's golf game is an indication of "trying to live up to his contract" -- we are in trouble.lolLol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 When does the CBA expire? I'm just wondering when the owners will again punish the players for signing contacts given to them to sign. I'd like to see what the annual salary looks like. If there is no or a very limited NMC/NYC, it's not horrible. He will be movable if motivation/performance changes. I realize the "based on one year?" thing, but honestly most of us saw that in him before that and he was clearly growing toward it. The Flyers saw it, too. If he can do what he did with NO winger on the other side, just imagine... I may swallow hard if there's some prohibitive NM/TC, but while I'm usually with the "too long" crowd, I think I'm okay here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I realize the "based on one year?" thing, but honestly most of us saw that in him before that and he was clearly growing toward it. The Flyers saw it, too. If he can do what he did with NO winger on the other side, just imagine... I think you hit the nail on the head there rux... I dont hate the deal just wish it would have been shorter for the amount of money. I can live with it and I think Jake still has room to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I'd have rather it been shorter and cheaper. Hextall's banking a lot on continued growth from Jake and Couturier. To me, 8+ million means that you're a truly elite player in the league. I'm not saying Jake's not, the point totals speak for themselves. But to me this means one thing: He should play on Couturier's RW next season, not Giroux's. And he should be able to produce 70+ points there. 8.25 million a year means you should be able to produce without one of the top centers in the league. It means you make the players around you better (to be clear, I do think Voracek is able to do this. 8.25 million able, I'm not quite sold on). And for a team desperate to find secondary scoring, having two elite players you can split up to give opposing teams matchup problems makes it a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I'd have rather it been shorter and cheaper. Hextall's banking a lot on continued growth from Jake and Couturier. To me, 8+ million means that you're a truly elite player in the league. I'm not saying Jake's not, the point totals speak for themselves. But to me this means one thing: He should play on Couturier's RW next season, not Giroux's. And he should be able to produce 70+ points there. 8.25 million a year means you should be able to produce without one of the top centers in the league. It means you make the players around you better (to be clear, I do think Voracek is able to do this. 8.25 million able, I'm not quite sold on). And for a team desperate to find secondary scoring, having two elite players you can split up to give opposing teams matchup problems makes it a no-brainer. man, you took the words out of my mouth AJ... awesome post and agree 100%. I am not sure how to quantify it but how much of the "g factor" is related to Jake's success? I know this goes both ways but it definitely has crossed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 You know the obvious question that will come to these boards about 3 months into the season is when will G get stripped of the "C" and Jake get the "C" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Yep that's a good point Rux, Voracek has clearly been growing his game all along. He says his role model is Jagr (minus the prima donna attitude of Jagr's early years) and we all see it happening. Voracek has become a legit power fwd he just needs to keep it going. After a year like he just produced his confidence must be soaring. There's no reason to expect any kind of letdown. On the contrary we should see an even better season out of him especially if Gagner or whoever can rack up 25+ goals on the wing. Like you said Jake had an All-star year with Raffl on that line...imagine a true sniper working that position.Hextall will likely have to trade to make that top line complete. I always liked Gagner but it's hard to picture him as an elite top line guy who reliably finishes with goals. One thing is certain if Hak puts him with G/V he'll have plenty of chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Oh, I see what the problem is. You think I care... Well, I don't because that was an absolute nothing thing to me. I'll take care of this elsewhere...You sure are animated about something you don't care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 @hf101 I love Jake's quote but found this one very interesting: Dave Isaac @davegisaac 13h13 hours agoHextall "I’m not sure there will be a push” to re-sign Brayden Schenn. Sounds like it won’t happen until next offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygrump Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 like this? Combined, Vincent Lecavalier (35), R.J. Umberger (33), and Andrew MacDonald (28) make $14.1 million. Last season, they played in a combined 182 games, scoring 19 goals and adding 28 assists. Umberger was a minus-9. Lecavalier was a minus-7. MacDonald was a minus-5. Jake will be 27 when his new 8 year contract starts and 35 when it ends. This is what gets me. I'm not concerned with the Jake contract. Its contracts like VLC, Umberger, and AMac that get me. If you recognize a superstar in the making and deem him part of your core with Giroux and say "I want to build around these players" fine. But when you are just throwing darts at FAs hoping to find scoring depth on players that are over 30 that is lunacy. We can be hesitant about the length of the Voracek deal but the fact is he was getting this contract somewhere. So someone was going to pay him at this value for that term. He has flourished here with Giroux. May as well keep the band together. Now build around that group when these bad contracts come off the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 This is what gets me. I'm not concerned with the Jake contract. Its contracts like VLC, Umberger, and AMac that get me. Amen to that grump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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