jammer2 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 And even if we do, we don't have a right to our own made up set of facts classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 My goodness.Officially the worst post of all time on HF. Maybe even silly.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmdodgesrt4 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'm lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 If you want a guarantee buy a dryer...Seems to me Hextall's got a plan and he's sticking to it so far. He'll make the Flyers younger, quicker and more skilled at the transition game. D-men who can rush the puck and contribute offensively will be key in Hakstol's sytem. I get the feeling he's got no patience for guys who won't (or can't) keep up. Don't look for massive improvements anytime soon; this is a multi-year plan and we're at Year One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poconono Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Although I am someone who is often unduly harsh on Flyer management and the team in general I find the original post to be totally inaccurate. Jagr was long gone before Hextall took over. Hartnell wore out his welcome here. And this team had not grit or guts for years. The sexy pick for this year's Cup is the Ducks, but I think they take too many dumb penalties to unseat Chicago or beat Tampa Bay or the Rangers. They're reminiscent of the many Flyer teams that made it to the Finals but ultimately failed over the years - talented but lacking the drive and focus to seal the deal. They are highly over-rated. I'm still buying into Hexy's plan because I've spent over 40 years watching cut and paste rosters fail year after year. It's about time someone finally attempted a new approach. Yes it's painful and may never work out, but at least it's something different. I'd much rather watch a bunch of kids drafted and developed by the organization learn over the years than put up with group of has-beens trying to pull a miracle out of their hat. The future on the blueline looks secure. Not all these guys are gonna become stars, but the odds are finally in the Flyers' favor with 4 highly respected prospects in the pipeline. The only concern I still have is that there are no power forwards on the farm or in the system. Hopefully another season of suffering will land us an Auston Matthews, Jesse Puljujarvi, Max Jones or Tyler Benson in the draft. I also wouldn't mind seeing a trade of one of our defensive prospects for a stud winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 By the way, the Ducks are a team I will continue to bet against until they prove me wrong. Part of it is that they have the wrong coach who will never get a team to the promised land. And now they do need to start worrying about the window starting to close for this nucleus. @murraycravenWorst post? I agree it's horrible, but given previous posts it is becoming increasingly difficult to rank them. Let's just say they're all rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @brelicI like your way of thinking...it's nice to see someone actually question Hextall instead of saying he can do no wrong.I think it's too early to judge him though. He has drafted "smart" (can't say "well" because its too early to tell), dumped some contracts with the pronger/grossmann deals, and set things up for the future. My fear is that he set it up for too far in the future. I hope giroux and voracek arent part their prime once these younger guys start to blossom.Hartnell/Umberger was a wash for me. Hartnell brought more but he wasnt going to give you what you needed so i didnt mind getting a cheaper contract with less years in return.Whatever happens, this team bores the hell out of me for two straight years. Ive never been this bored with hockey. They just never do anything exciting. They dont score, they dont hit, they dont fight. They need more personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 By the way, the Ducks are a team I will continue to bet against until they prove me wrong. Part of it is that they have the wrong coach who will never get a team to the promised land. And now they do need to start worrying about the window starting to close for this nucleus. @murraycravenWorst post? I agree it's horrible, but given previous posts it is becoming increasingly difficult to rank them. Let's just say they're all rank.I definitely think that is fair rux! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @iceholeFirst, the post wasn't brelic; it was briere48. If it were brelic, the criticisms probably would have been warranted. Or would have made some semblance of sense, anyway. Otherwise, I think your post is reasonable. Whatever happens, this team bores the hell out of me for two straight years. Ive never been this bored with hockey. They just never do anything exciting. They dont score, they dont hit, they dont fight. They need more personality. This has been my problem for at least two years. And yeah, getting rid of Hartnell was probably the last act of decharacterizing the team. If the team were good the character would take care of itself, i think, but we may be done with the PT Barnum Era of the team. It's kind of a shame because even Pittsburgh has lost those kinds of characters and it makes even that game less fun. I'm hoping when the team is finally remade the way Hextall wants it that the speed, etc, he's looking for will be a decent substitute. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 The only concern I still have is that there are no power forwards on the farm or in the system Lindblom might fit the bill. His ceiling is probably middle-six winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Or would have made some semblance of sense, anyway. LOL thanks rux. I occasionally make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sorry brelic and/or briere...Im not on my game this morning.Id just like to say this to the people that are fine with rebuilding for a few years and not expecting to compete for a playoff spot. This also goes for the people who write "not bad guys...not bad at all" refering to the Tampa effort. If the flyers are in complete rebuild, why not try to trade giroux, voracek, and/or simmonds for a top pick like a McDavid or similar. Why not make the entire team early 20's potential superstars when its time to compete? If you are going to keep your star players in their prime, my expectations are to make a run. Not making the playoffs is unacceptable and I'll hold hextal accountable for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 What this team needs is a toughfighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @Bertmega, 84? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sorry brelic and/or briere...Im not on my game this morning.Id just like to say this to the people that are fine with rebuilding for a few years and not expecting to compete for a playoff spot. This also goes for the people who write "not bad guys...not bad at all" refering to the Tampa effort. If the flyers are in complete rebuild, why not try to trade giroux, voracek, and/or simmonds for a top pick like a McDavid or similar. Why not make the entire team early 20's potential superstars when its time to compete? If you are going to keep your star players in their prime, my expectations are to make a run. Not making the playoffs is unacceptable and I'll hold hextal accountable for that. Giroux and Simmonds are 27. Voracek is 26. There should be many years of quality hockey left in all 3. If we could deal one for a potential star up and comer it wouldn't be a bad idea. But you're also not going to win, or develop properly, with a team full of kids, no matter how good they are. So they should trade Morin/Ghost/Sanheim and Provorov (or the picks they used to get them) and get some veteran defence that will make them good/not great and we can continue watching the Flyers make the playoffs every year and lose their last game? Sorry, I'm sick of that. It's why i've been preaching what Hextalls doing since 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @flyercanukIm not saying to get rid of the you talent at all...I like what Hextal is doing there. You have to decide what the plan is and stick with it though. If the plan is a rebuild, there's no need for star players. They may as well get some quality, young talent with manageable contacts for those guys. If you think those stars will be in their prime at 30, thats fine. I think they will still be good but not in their prime. I see toewes, kane, crosby, malkin, and so on winning cups in their early to mid 20s because their young stars all blossomed at the same time. Pittsburgh is in trouble now because they gave out some bad contracts and didnt pay attention to defense but chicago is 3 cups in with their guys just hitting their stride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sorry brelic and/or briere...Im not on my game this morning.Id just like to say this to the people that are fine with rebuilding for a few years and not expecting to compete for a playoff spot. This also goes for the people who write "not bad guys...not bad at all" refering to the Tampa effort. If the flyers are in complete rebuild, why not try to trade giroux, voracek, and/or simmonds for a top pick like a McDavid or similar. Why not make the entire team early 20's potential superstars when its time to compete? If you are going to keep your star players in their prime, my expectations are to make a run. Not making the playoffs is unacceptable and I'll hold hextal accountable for that. I'm not okay with "several" years, but a couple is realistic. I'm with you on the concern about Giroux and Voracek, in particular, by the time the team is "ready." To tell you the truth, I'm more concerned with Mason by that time. We may finally have a team ready by that point only to have Boucher and Leighton (I mean the equivalent) in net. Not making the playoffs in unacceptable but, for the time-being, understandable considering he has nothing to work with and no way (thanks to contracts and nowhere to go with them) to go get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @icehole Hextalls been gm for 17 months. In that time he's drafted whathas potential to be a legit top pair of NHL calibre defencemen for the very first time in Flyer history. he's preached patience, and actually looks like he standing by it. The youth is going to have to earn their spots, not just have them handed to them. He's traded away older washed up players for draft picks, the exact opposite of what has been the Flyer M.O. for decades. He's been trying to get rid of the ridiculous contracts Homer signed...some of which many on this board thought were great signings at the time (Vinny/McDud). The old way won us squat. It may suck not having a competitive team for a few years. I don't see it that way. I love watching a team being built, as opposed to watching rich teams trying to buy championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @flyercanuck THIS!!! Thank you for putting into words my exact thoughts. There are no guarantees that a Stanley Cup will be at the end of this rainbow/journey, but cleary the way the old west was won is not working anymore. Change needed to occur. To many of us on this board, that is all we ever wanted. A change and a new direction in order for this team succeed. Patience is what is now required by this fan base, and as I have mentioned before, a vast majority of Flyers fans find it extremely hard to have patience. They want instant success and that simply is not going to occur. Let Hexy finish the job he has started before anyone has the audacity to pass judgement on to him in such a short period of time. That is all. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @icehole i get what you're saying and it makes sense. eating half the **** sandwich leaves you still hungry but with a bad taste in your mouth. Hextall is trying to ice a competitive team while rebuilding and well that's hard. Tallon has no expectations of icing a winner so he was able to go scorched earth and now looks to have built himself a pretty nice team there in ass pit florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @flyercanuckI think you are still misunderstanding me. I never said I dont like building a team. Im just afraid of giroux, voracek, simmonds, and mason (didnt think of him before) might not be stars when the prospects start to contribute. I want the entire team to be at their best at the same time.Who were the stars on chicago when toewes, kane, seabrook, and keith broke into the league? Were they good immediately or did they lose a lot for a few years? Do they have guys on the decline with big contracts to juggle now? How long were Kane, Toewes, Keith, and the other hawks stars in the AHL?I think developing players in the AHL doesnt make much sense if you dont have a competetive NHL team. Why not put them up with better competition and better coaching? If they lose, at least they learn and we'll be looking at the future. Right now, we're watching a losing past in real time in front of our eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I think developing players in the AHL doesnt make much sense if you dont have a competetive NHL team. Why not put them up with better competition and better coaching? If they lose, at least they learn and we'll be looking at the future I was with you until that last part. Question: Why not put them up with better competition and better coaching? Answer: Because Hextall is stuck with NO cap space and nowhere to go with the contracts a-holmer left him. He has to wait to clear them out as quickly as he can. Since that requires someone else wanting our garbage OR a random search at the Canadian border crossing, that's going to take a bit of time. There's simply nowhere to put the kids at the moment, so you stockpile and get them playing at the A or in juniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I never said I dont like building a team. Im just afraid of giroux, voracek, simmonds, and mason (didnt think of him before) might not be stars when the prospects start to contribute. I want the entire team to be at their best at the same time. i agree with this, i'm concerned about the same thing. yes, giroux et all are only 27, 28 right now, and will still be in their "prime" if the crop of kids are ready in the next few years...but if the kids take more than 2 more years, the current leaders will be getting to the end of their prime shortly after. if giroux is 31 when the rest of the team is "ready"...how long will that window stay open? we'll have a couple years with a finally complete and competitive roster, and then you are looking to replace elite topline production. ideally, you want your team ready to roll during that span where your marque players are 25-30. i.e., right now. too much patience now, too much looking 4-5 years down the line, and you are back to the same situation we had with roenick and forsberg, a 31/32 yearold as the team's centerpiece. can work, but not an ideal plan. the irony there is for all the talk about not doing things the same way anymore, we'd end up in the same situation we have always had: comparatively old guys as the focus of the team. Who were the stars on chicago when toewes, kane, seabrook, and keith broke into the league? Were they good immediately or did they lose a lot for a few years? Do they have guys on the decline with big contracts to juggle now? How long were Kane, Toewes, Keith, and the other hawks stars in the AHL? the hawks won the cup in kane/toews' 3rd season. made it to the 3rd round in their 2nd. they walked on to a team that already had sharp, williams, keith, seabrook, byfuglien...and hossa was added for their cup season. kane and toews never touched the AHL, keith played two full seasons. the flyers are not following the chicago pattern: chicago's young stars joined an already solid core, and had all of their 20's with a fully competitive team. the flyers are looking at becoming competitive once their young stars are in their 30's. like i said, this plan has me nervous. don't know there is a ton hextall can do about that, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @ruxpinIm not sure how the contracts are structured exactly so I dont know what we can move and what we're stuck with. I do know that if you go with my original thought of trading our stars for high prospects, that would clear up some cap space. If giroux, voracek, simmonds, and mason came off the books, would that clear enough to bring up our youngsters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @ruxpinIm not sure how the contracts are structured exactly so I dont know what we can move and what we're stuck with. I do know that if you go with my original thought of trading our stars for high prospects, that would clear up some cap space. If giroux, voracek, simmonds, and mason came off the books, would that clear enough to bring up our youngsters? sure, depending on what they got back. a really REALLY risky play, though. it'll be rough to try to win a cup with the core as 30+ guys, but even rougher to essentially start from scratch and hope you can *find* a core from a pile of really young kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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