It's Official

[Bakanekimiwa]

Thank you, brelic.  So pretty much even up.  So that's not an excuse for being in your end more, statistically, than any of your teammates.  

 

there's a WOWY(with or without you) category that would be interesting to look up how Schenn effects his line mates. Probably not too much of a sample size for any, though, given that he's played with EVERYONE. Maybe I'll get some time tomorrow to do some 'research'. 

 

I don't fully understand how to use all these advance stats myself, but I do put some stock into possession stats and that seems to be where Schenn is lacking. I don't mean to just pick on Schenn though... you would probably find that all Flyers are mid to terrible right now. And I don't think anyone would be surprised by that. 

[King Knut]

Time to call this a rebuild.  Cut loose the core and get whatever prospects, picks we can get in return.  I actually watched most of that brutal mess last night and was in awe.  This team has nothing.  Very little talent.  No snarl.  No fear factor. Extremely boring play.  Nothing.  Bust it up and start from scratch already.

 

I feel sorry for Hextall and Hakstol being handed this pile of garbage.

 

 

 

This team has essentially been rebuilt.

We just can't play any of them yet because either A) They "need development"  B)  We have too many contracts that can't be moved.

 

Personally, I'd like to hear some actual explanations for what's going on.

"Need Accountability" just doesn't cut it any more.

They were playing better.  Then they apparently forgot everything they were doing to play better.

It makes no sense. 

 

And I don't mean they were playing better like the few games they played well last year "playing Better".  I mean they were playing a system and executing it well, but just not in a way that resulted in many goals, which I was fine with.

 

But abandoning their positioning, bailing on the back check, and fore checking like lolly gaggers in that system and they're getting crushed as a result.  And personally I'd like an actual explanation from someone.

 

WHY.  Why is accountability even necessary?  Why did they stop doing what they were doing?  Why are they giving up on plays from the start now?  Where did their energy go?  Are they just that out of shape?  Are they all sick?  Is there poison in the SMoothie Machine?  WHAT HAPPENED?

[Podein25]

 

 

This team has essentially been rebuilt.

We just can't play any of them yet because either A) They "need development"  B)  We have too many contracts that can't be moved.

 

Personally, I'd like to hear some actual explanations for what's going on.

"Need Accountability" just doesn't cut it any more.

They were playing better.  Then they apparently forgot everything they were doing to play better.

It makes no sense. 

 

And I don't mean they were playing better like the few games they played well last year "playing Better".  I mean they were playing a system and executing it well, but just not in a way that resulted in many goals, which I was fine with.

 

But abandoning their positioning, bailing on the back check, and fore checking like lolly gaggers in that system and they're getting crushed as a result.  And personally I'd like an actual explanation from someone.

 

WHY.  Why is accountability even necessary?  Why did they stop doing what they were doing?  Why are they giving up on plays from the start now?  Where did their energy go?  Are they just that out of shape?  Are they all sick?  Is there poison in the SMoothie Machine?  WHAT HAPPENED?

 

One of your better posts!

[pilldoc]

They were playing better.  Then they apparently forgot everything they were doing to play better.

It makes no sense. 

 

And I don't mean they were playing better like the few games they played well last year "playing Better".  I mean they were playing a system and executing it well, but just not in a way that resulted in many goals, which I was fine with.

 

But abandoning their positioning, bailing on the back check, and fore checking like lolly gaggers in that system and they're getting crushed as a result.  And personally I'd like an actual explanation from someone.

 

WHY.  Why is accountability even necessary?  Why did they stop doing what they were doing?  Why are they giving up on plays from the start now?  Where did their energy go?  Are they just that out of shape?  Are they all sick?  Is there poison in the SMoothie Machine?  WHAT HAPPENED?

 

In a previous response I posted.....

 

going back to the old broken down used car analogy.  You can change the spark plugs, change the filters and oil.  It might run ok for a while...but eventually it will break down again because it is after all an old broken down jalopy.

 

Similiar to this team.  New coach, new season, fresh start and a few good solid games..but if you don't fix the main problems, this team will eventually revert back to its old form.  Simply put, they are a bad team with several broken parts.......

[FD19372]

Hate to say it, but the rebuild has been needed for a few seasons now. It wasn't just Berube, the players just aren't anywhere near good enough.

[intheslot]

Never mind .... !!!!!

[FD19372]

Fargo is outstanding.... I will have to check out Homeland!

Homeland is a great show. I heard the Flyers were looking to sign Carrie Mathison for some needed grit and toughness.

[Howie58]

Good Morning:

 

1)  This team has to "play-not-to-lose" to win.  It doesn't have the talent to win in moderate- to high-scoring games.  

2)  We are in for a long-rebuild, and taking draft picks for talent dump/transfer may be needed to speed things up and account for the aging of "the core."  On that score, I would say goodbye to Simmonds. 

3) Hakstol needs time...How much time will he be given?

 

Bottom line:  Pinnaccio said we are roughly equal in wins/points with with where we were in '07 after the Hitchcock/Stevens transition.  That's not so much an eye-opener but a question mark?  We've had two deep playoff runs in the interim.  But the franchise looks no better.  I hope that Pryor and his crew know their stuff.  Their picks will be our future.  What I saw last night doesn't have much future.  

 

Howie

[FD19372]

Good Morning:

 

1)  This team has to "play-not-to-lose" to win.  It doesn't have the talent to win in moderate- to high-scoring games.  

2)  We are in for a long-rebuild, and taking draft picks for talent dump/transfer may be needed to speed things up and account for the aging of "the core."  On that score, I would say goodbye to Simmonds. 

3) Hakstol needs time...How much time will he be given?

 

Bottom line:  Pinnaccio said we are roughly equal in wins/points with with where we were in '07 after the Hitchcock/Stevens transition.  That's not so much an eye-opener but a question mark?  We've had two deep playoff runs in the interim.  But the franchise looks no better.  I hope that Pryor and his crew know their stuff.  Their picks will be our future.  What I saw last night doesn't have much future.  

 

Howie

If this team fires Hakstol, even if he is over his head, I'll lose almost all respect for Hextall as a GM. It's time to trade G or Voracek, not fire Hakstol. The leadership on this team SUCKS.

[canoli]

The leadership on this team SUCKS.

 

So what is it then something in the Philly water? I've been hearing "the leadership sucks" for years now and I always thought the complaint was misplaced.

 

The captain, "the leadership" isn't there to motivate anyone or hold their hand when times are tough. Some of them do, of course, but that's bc/ it's their style. Pro teams don't even need captains except to talk to the officials. These players are professionals who know what they're supposed to do. Why they're not doing it for the Flyers right now is anyone's guess but it's not Giroux's fault just like it wasn't Richards'.

[radoran]

Pro teams don't even need captains except to talk to the officials. These players are professionals who know what they're supposed to do.

 

I'll disagree to an extent here. I do think that an effective leader or effective leadership can make a huge difference on a team.

 

It's not so much the letter on the chest as much as it is "showing the way." Players, in fact, don't know how to go deep in the playoffs if they haven't been there before. And having someone who has can be a very important part of the equation. Look at Pronger in Edmonton. Or Pronger in Anaheim. Or Pronger in Philadelphia. It's a reason why Recchi was such a valuable commodity even late in his career. It's why adding Richards and Crater was important for the Kings. Even Marian Hossa for the Hawks or BIll Guerin for the Pens. Mark Messier in New York.

 

Good leadership can be - is - a vital part of the ultimate team sport: hockey. It is the glue that makes a team "more than the sum of its parts."

 

It's not Giroux's fault that he had never been in this role until the Flyers were basically forced by the Pronger injury to install him into it. It could just be that being "the leader" a la a Pronger, Sakic, Messier, Toews, Yzerman, etc. just isn't a club he has in the bag.

 

We're obviously talking about all time greats - and it is also fair to say that Giroux is not an all time great. It's not his "fault" - it just is what it is.

[FD19372]

So what is it then something in the Philly water? I've been hearing "the leadership sucks" for years now and I always thought the complaint was misplaced.

 

The captain, "the leadership" isn't there to motivate anyone or hold their hand when times are tough. Some of them do, of course, but that's bc/ it's their style. Pro teams don't even need captains except to talk to the officials. These players are professionals who know what they're supposed to do. Why they're not doing it for the Flyers right now is anyone's guess but it's not Giroux's fault just like it wasn't Richards'.

Well, it isn't entirely G's fault but there are two ways you can lead. Either a) on the ice, or b) getting in people's face in the dressing room but b) only goes so far without a) or the other players will roll their eyes and tune you out. So, a decent portion of this falls on Claude. Like it or not, when you get the C, these are the consequences.

[fanaticV3.0]

If this team fires Hakstol, even if he is over his head, I'll lose almost all respect for Hextall as a GM. It's time to trade G or Voracek, not fire Hakstol. The leadership on this team SUCKS.

 

I don't even disagree with you, but if the only reason keeping a coach is because we can't fire him (yet), that is not exactly an enviable situation.health

[FD19372]

I don't even disagree with you, but if the only reason keeping a coach is because we can't fire him (yet), that is not exactly an enviable situation.health

Scotty Bowman couldn't coach this bunch to the playoffs.

[otto12]

You want hope? Let's petition Comcast to switch the Flyers' broadcasts with the Phantoms.

Be fun watching the kids. Playoffs too!

[jammer2]

  It's just so very tough to sit through some of these Flyer games. No hustle, no identity, no character, expansion team skill level....just a piss poor excuse for a team.

[fanaticV3.0]

  It's just so very tough to sit through some of these Flyer games. No hustle, no identity, no character, expansion team skill level....just a piss poor excuse for a team.

 

I choose not to. I watched the first half a dozen or so games and I'm done.

[fanaticV3.0]

Scotty Bowman couldn't coach this bunch to the playoffs.

 

That's not really what I was trying to say. I know this team is bed and I know this team is bad because of the players on the ice. The coach is also in over his head and although we cannot fire him at this time it sucks that we are forced to keep him only because we fire so many coaches.

[radoran]

The coach is also in over his head

 

What is the evidence - after 17 games - that the coach is "in over his head?"

 

And how can you be lambasting posters on other threads for making assertions about a player after "16" games, while you feel perfectly fine asserting things about the coach after 17?

[fanaticV3.0]

What is the evidence - after 17 games - that the coach is "in over his head?"

 

And how can you be lambasting posters on other threads for making assertions about a player after "16" games, while you feel perfectly fine asserting things about the coach after 17?

 

If this response  isn't as long as it once was, I apologize. This is the fifth time I have tried to reply to your comments. Ironically,  in looking for articles to back up or elaborate my point, my computer has crashed each and every time ( sites  with videos that automatically load are evil). No words, in any language, exist to properly express how annoyed I am. However, I offer this:

 

1. Quite simply,  I think scratching Gagner was weird. He's a serviceable veteran and had a decent preseason. Scratching him to start the season was completely baseless.

2. Almost every one of our core players is playing worse than they were last year. I first one  to blame players for their own shortcomings, but everyone on the team who is one of the better players is struggling.

3. He's being out-coached, which is to be expected given his experience, but that doesn't mean it is happening.

 

I think this is a decent summary of how I feel:http://thehockeywriters.com/flyers-experiencing-growing-pains-with-rookie-coach-dave-hakstol/

 

If you want to get technical I did judge Voracek after 16 games. I said I think last year is a fluke and I still do think that. I just disagreed with OC that we should trade him  after 16 games ( before he got the chance to prove last year was a fluke  or not) - just as I wouldn't give up on the coach quite yet  even if I do think he's in over his head.

[Bakanekimiwa]

What is the evidence - after 17 games - that the coach is "in over his head?"

 

And how can you be lambasting posters on other threads for making assertions about a player after "16" games, while you feel perfectly fine asserting things about the coach after 17?

 

BOOM, roasted. 

[radoran]

If you want to get technical I did judge Voracek after 16 games. I said I think last year is a fluke and I still do think that. I just disagreed with OC that we should trade him after 16 games ( before he got the chance to prove last year was a fluke or not) - just as I wouldn't give up on the coach quite yet even if I do think he's in over his head.

 

Agreed.

[ruxpin]

I have to agree that Hakstol is in over his head. That's not to say that he can't grow into the role or that any of this is his fault. I blame the players and the personnel guy who got them.

I agree with the Gagner thing and the B Schenn benchings and some other personnel moves. But, I get that he's not only tinkering but he has them doing something new and if they're not working how HE sees fit, bench away.

I really haven't watched more than a handful of shifts per game in weeks. There's really not much to like and it's not entertaining. I just have better things to do with my time (well, I have OTHER things).

[fanaticV3.0]

I have to agree that Hakstol is in over his head. That's not to say that he can't grow into the role or that any of this is his fault. I blame the players and the personnel guy who got them.

I agree with the Gagner thing and the B Schenn benchings and some other personnel moves. But, I get that he's not only tinkering but he has them doing something new and if they're not working how HE sees fit, bench away.

I really haven't watched more than a handful of shifts per game in weeks. There's really not much to like and it's not entertaining. I just have better things to do with my time (well, I have OTHER things).

 

Did he do with Schen too? I'm with you I can watch more than a few minutes.  There are other things on TV and enjoy more. I watched a lot early on, but then I gave up.

 

I'm starting to suspect that the coach and some of the core players, for different reasons, won't be here two to three years.

[radoran]

I have to agree that Hakstol is in over his head. That's not to say that he can't grow into the role or that any of this is his fault.

 

I might agree, as well. But why? What's the real evidence for it?

 

I, too, don't understand the use of Gagner - unless Gagner is just a capital B Bust. I don't understand benching BSchenn and playing Manning.

 

But that's not to say there isn't a "reason" for it.

 

It could very well be that his style is "losing the room" or whatever. But that also presumes that this "room" could actually be found - and I'm not at all sure about that.

 

I'm starting to suspect that the coach and some of the core players, for different reasons, won't be here two to three years.

 

I think some players going is inevitable at this point. There's no other way to make over the roster. I know Mr. Snider likes to say "you can't change the players" but there are all of six guys still here from the 11-12 season.

 

But I really do think we need more of a look at and from Hakstol before we know what we've got as a coach.

 

I think Hextall will be more likely to make significant roster moves than give up on the coach he hand-picked.