Game #53 - Sabres at Flyers - Feb 11 2016 - 7:00 ET

[flyerrod]

First off, Gudas should get a suspension for the hit. That said, I HATE the fact that players are using the head down thing as a tactic to avoid being hit. If Catanocci had his head up this would have been a solid open ice hit similar to Abdelkader's and it would have been lessened by the fact that the Sabre player would have seen him coming.

[AJgoal]

Couple of weird things about the calls on the ice maybe someone can sort out for me. First, I thought it was odd that Gudas didn't receive a game for the hit. He only got a major.

 

After that, he fought McGinn. Both got majors for fighting. McGinn got two for instigating, and a game. Buffalo went immediately on the power play for 3 minutes. Shouldn't it have started 4 on 4 with whomever served McGinn's penalty in the box, THEN become a powerplay when the two minute minor expired? 

[brelic]

Really? I don't know - dude was skating with his head down, bent over at the waist. Puck possession is debatable, IMO. He didn't have possession, but it was right within his reach. He was part of the play. 

 

I agree that Gudas' probably should have let up with the game nicely wrapped up. No need for it. But I don't think it's suspension-worthy. Which means it probably is, lol!

 

[murraycraven]

46 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Catenacci was skating through center with a Flyer checking him. Lost control of the puck, looked down and back and bent over to try to retrieve it. Gudas nailed him. Couple of problems with the hit: First, it wasn't like Catenacci ducked at the last second. He was bent over for a noticeable amount of time before Gudas hit him. He was obviously defenseless, and the game was well in hand with less than 4 minutes to go. No need to go for that big hit. It was dumb. I think this one will result in a suspension.

 

this has to be a suspension.  No reason whatsoever to step up on him at that point.  Head contact - stupid penalty - suspension coming.

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, brelic said:

Really? I don't know - dude was skating with his head down, bent over at the waist. Puck possession is debatable, IMO. He didn't have possession, but it was right within his reach. He was part of the play. 

 

I agree that Gudas' probably should have let up with the game nicely wrapped up. No need for it. But I don't think it's suspension-worthy. Which means it probably is, lol!

 

 

I had zero problem with Gudas hitting him. He had touched the puck and it's up to Gudas to seperate him from the puck. But the score being what it was and his head down....I just think you have to have more respect for your fellow player.

[murraycraven]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I had zero problem with Gudas hitting him. He had touched the puck and it's up to Gudas to seperate him from the puck. But the score being what it was and his head down....I just think you have to have more respect for your fellow player.

 

 

I have no problem w/ a good hit...   Gudas lined him up and he was in a bad position to be hit.  There was no reason for it, and as you said, showed no respect for the player.   Stupid play...

[flyerrod]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

But the score being what it was and his head down....I just think you have to have more respect for your fellow player.

Exactly. Players still need to stop skating with their head down thinking it makes them off limits for being hit. Gudas actually lets up on the hit absorbing instead of driving through but I would rather see him get a game suspension now for the contact to the head even though he was not targeting it.

[radoran]

"unnecessary" is a good word for it.

 

As I said in the Abdelkader thread, bad things can happen on completely legal plays. It's a dangerous game. Players are risking their health every time they step on the ice.

 

And that's where the "respect" that has been mentioned needs to come into play and why the hit was so unnecessary given the score and the time left in the game.

 

But, say, for example, it's a 2-1 game and a team is trying to hold a lead with four minutes left. It is still "unnecessary" to try to separate that player from the puck? I honestly don't see a huge "distance traveled" by Gudas before the hit and the primary cause of the ferociousness of the hit was Catenacci's velocity and position bending over pursuing the puck he had just lost control of. Rob Ray says on commentary that Catenacci is "in a bad spot" - and he is. And, again, given the situation in the game it is not necessary to make that play.

 

But, again, what if it's a different situation in the game? Do you want your defenseman to try to stop a player who is bringing the puck up ice in that situation?

 

I think I do.

 

 According to the rule book he should have been assessed a Game Misconduct for the "Charge".

 

Quote

Game Misconduct Penalty

- When a major penalty is imposed under

this rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an

opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed.

 

They should probably have a separate rule for "contact with the head' and make it perfectly clear that any contact with the head is a penalty.

 

Right now, as rod notes, players put themselves into dangerous positions and then are surprised that something bad happens (see: Lindros, Eric).

 

If they make it crystal clear that any head contact is illegal then players will start to take it much more seriously and change the way they play the game.

 

And that will change the game. But it just might change it for the better.

[AJgoal]

Per Meltzer: No supplementary discipline for Gudas.

 

[icehole]

2 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

this has to be a suspension.  No reason whatsoever to step up on him at that point.  Head contact - stupid penalty - suspension coming.

Murray, you and I don't usually see eye to eye on big hits...and why should this be any different.  I think you used similar reasoning for the rinaldo hit on couturier.  I'm not saying that Gudas shouldn't be suspended for the hit (I can't tell if he targeted the head or not), but you can't suspend a guy because you think the hit was unnecessary.  I don't care if there's 5 seconds left in a 10-1 game, if you want to throw a legal hit, throw it.  It's the other team's responsibility to be aware.  Do you think Byalsma doesn't know who Gudas is?  You have to be aware at all times.

You have the right to not like him if you want.  It was disrespectful, but I don't respect the other team during the game anyway.  I don't think the hit was necessary but I like when the team shows any kind of toughness.  Buffalo fought him and they have the right to get him back in the future.

[Samifan]

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

Per Meltzer: No supplementary discipline for Gudas.

 

Wow, a bit surprised. I thought for sure he would get something for being a Flyer. 

 

Now I need to brace myself for all of Western New York to bitch about that decision. 

[OccamsRazor]

This is a hard one. At the end of the day these guys have to start looking out for one another and thinking about not making some of these hits. I know it's a contact sport but these guys have families and i think it's ok to NOT make that hit when someone is in a vulnerable situation like that.

 

I wouldn't be mad or upset or even shocked if he gets suspended. He just should have pulled up and let him go. I know i make catch some flak for that but i'm with it.

[radoran]

22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

This is a hard one. At the end of the day these guys have to start looking out for one another and thinking about not making some of these hits. I know it's a contact sport but these guys have families and i think it's ok to NOT make that hit when someone is in a vulnerable situation like that.

 

I wouldn't be mad or upset or even shocked if he gets suspended. He just should have pulled up and let him go. I know i make catch some flak for that but i'm with it.

 

I agree with all of that. I think it's tough for some players to "turn it off" though. They play a certain way regardless of the score or situation. And that's what's gotten them to where they are.

 

Gudas, in particular, has a M.O. of big hits and finishing checks. It's pretty much why he's in the league making almost a million dollars and gone from Kladno, Czech to Tampa, Norfolk, Syracuse, Everett, WA, and Philadelphia. I don't think he has personal animosity or a malicious desire to "hurt" someone - I just think that he plays the game "a certain way."

 

Which is where a formal rule change outright outlawing head contact would help clear things up and give specific parameters to players and the teams evaluating them. As I noted earlier, I think it would also change the game significantly.

 

Like you say, this is a hard decision. In that situation that hit isn't necessary. On the other hand, if you take that sort of play out of a tighter contest does that eliminate a team's ability to stop a rush and put some players who earn their living with big hits (who also "have families" to think about) out of a job?

 

I don't know if there is a "good answer".

[AJgoal]

Thanks @radoran, you said it better than I could. Just feel like in the situation he should have let up (akin to not going for a stretch pass up 6-2 with 5 to go), but hitters gonna hit.

 

I AM somewhat surprised at the no suspension, but as @flyercanuck said, it was a hockey play, regardless of the timing.

[LegionOfDoom]

The way this could of worked out better for both players, well for Gudas hit in particular was for him to of just skated toward him, plant himself in front of him and (using a basketball reference) taken the "charging" hit. If you align yourself right, the other person will feel like they just crashed into a steel beam. That way Gudas did his job of seperating the player from the puck and little johnny on the spot will learn to keep his head up in open ice.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The moment a player is in a vulnerable position, regardless of whether he puts himself there or not, should be the moment you let up. What people also don't talk about is the fact that Gudas skated from 30 feet away to hit Catenacci, who was tangled up with the Flyers player (I believe it was VandeVelde) as they were going for the puck. Gudas didn't hit Catenacci with an elbow and hit him with the bicep area of his arm, but he hit him when Catenacci was vulnerable. It would have been different if Catenacci was upright and was looking back to admire a pass or a play, but this was flat out premeditated with the intent to injure. The Gudas hit on Catenacci was not a hockey play at all. The NHL needs to decide for once and for all if they're going to get serious about headshots and if they are, then they need to make a rule as clear as day that any and all headshots are a no go. With what we're beginning to learn about headshots and the devastating effects they can have long after a player retires, you'd figure the NHL would want to be ahead of the curve on that aspect.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

No suspension...but he did get a talking to.

 

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/ron-hextall-dave-hakstol-talk-radko-gudas-about-hit-sabres-daniel-catenacci

 

Ron Hextall, Dave Hakstol talk with Radko Gudas about hit

 

February 12, 2016, 1:45 pm

 

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Radko Gudas reacts after his first of two fights during the Flyers' win on Thursday night. (USA Today Images)

 

VOORHEES, N.J. — Flyers general manager Ron Hextall and coach Dave Hakstol talked individually with Radko Gudas on Friday about his unnecessary hit on Buffalo rookie Daniel Catenacci that earned Gudas a five-minute major for charging.

Even more, it earned yet another review by the NHL’s department of player safety — that’s four this year — and for the second time this month, Gudas did not receive a hearing, according to sources Friday (see story).

So the Flyers’ broad-shouldered defenseman dodged yet another suspension.

He didn’t dodge the wrath of his coach or GM. Their concern was whether Gudas understands time, place and whether the kind of borderline play he made was worth it with 3:33 left in a game the Flyers were winning, 5-1.

“There’s a big picture to all of it in terms of our main concern," Hakstol said. "Our main goal right now is to do all the little things necessary to win hockey games. 

“In keeping with that, how individually does everybody do their part to help us win games. That’s the basis of my conversation with Radko.”

The Flyers don’t need the extra scrutiny that Gudas is bringing upon the team with more regularity these days. Gudas admitted he met with Hextall.

“We talked in the morning, briefly,” Gudas said. “He was making sure I am paying attention and doesn’t want me to get suspended again. Be a good hockey player and make a good hit.”

Even though Gudas' hit on Catenacci was considered “legal” by the NHL, it doesn’t necessarily mean it was a “good” hit nor even necessary in that situation when a vulnerable player with his head down was already engaged with another Flyer (Chris VandeVelde).

Catenacci will not play for the Sabres tonight because of a possible concussion.

“Nothing really I want to comment on,” Gudas said. “You guys all saw it. I really can’t comment. It’s a hockey play. Everything can be done differently. I don’t take a look at it and say, ‘I should have done this or that.' I did what I did. It happened.”

Big hits — and questionable hits — are in Gudas' nature, just as they were in Zac Rinaldo's when he played here.

Yet the larger issue is whether Gudas recognizes that he is bringing unwanted attention to the Flyers at a crucial time of the season when tight games can easily be won or lost on an unnecessary penalty.

Does Gudas get it?

“That is part of the conversation we had,” Hakstol replied. “What are we doing to help ourselves win hockey games?”

It remains to be seen whether Hakstol punishes Gudas with less ice time or even benches him on Saturday against New Jersey.

Hakstol said there might be lineup changes but wouldn’t say who would come out.

He did say, however, he was happy with the two forward changes he made against Buffalo — R.J. Umberger and Jordan Weal.

If Gudas sits, Evgeny Medvedev would re-enter the lineup.

[radoran]

I was AT the game and saw the play develop and to say Gudas went 30 feet into him is ridiculous.

 

Even the Buffalo announcers said he came from the blue line and he hit the Sabre halfway between the blue and center lines.

 

And under the current rules any player in a tight game who lets up in that situation  will not be in the league long.

[canoli]

3 hours ago, radoran said:

I think it's tough for some players to "turn it off" though. They play a certain way regardless of the score or situation. And that's what's gotten them to where they are.

 

Exactly, and I don't want that to change. The NHL should have room for the Rinaldo and Gudas types ... guys who's forte is separating puck carriers from the puck. I think if it were possible I'd draw the line at players like Raffi Torres, head-hunters whose main mission seems to be causing injury to the opposition (thankfully he's the AHL's headache now).

 

I'd be slow to implement a "all head contact is illegal" rule. We've already got guys trying to draw boarding calls by turning at the last second. What's to prevent puck carriers adopting "The Catenacci" as their default posture (well maybe not quite so hunched over)?

 

As for Gudas leveling Catenacci last night...welcome to the NHL rook! I know that's cold, harsh and obviously the hit was totally unnecessary. I hope the guy isn't concussed too bad. But players like Gudas, Orpik, Clutterbuck, etc. when they're lining somebody up they can't be second-guessing themselves, trying to factor in the score, the time left, who it is, etc... what else? the standings? the target's injury history?

 

Maybe off-ice between games or in practices, in the locker rooms a cultural change can begin - if it's encouraged. Coaches can reward more respectful plays, players will spread the word how So-And-So could've taken Such-Such's head off the other night but he let up...and that's accepted as a Good Thing. Eventually Gudas may let up a bit before he hits Catenacci in open ice late in a game...or Rinaldo on Couturier a few months back with 2 secs to go in the period (IIRC).

 

But for now in the heat of the moment - 5-1 late in the 3rd or 2-2 in G7 OT - big hitters should deliver big hits. Like you said that's what got them where they are; that's why they're drawing a salary. The NHL and its fans value big hits and most of us like it that way.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

A little late to this particular party, but I had ZERO problem with the Rad-KO hit.

Apparently, the league doesn't either, as no supplementary disciplined was levied.

 

Long post coming up, and yea, I feel like ranting just a little bit....

 

I read through some of the commentary here, and I see where people are talking about what is necessary, the score, situational, blah, blah, blah...

Look...bottom line is, Gudas is a hard nosed defenseman with a mean streak who DOES play the game a certain way (as someone here put it), he definitely plays with an edge and plays ON the edge. It's what's made him an NHL player.

 

I also agree with players needing to be smart, however, if you are gonna dump on Gudas for NOT being smart on that hit, then you definitely have to give crap to the guy skating with his head a freakin knee level.

The Buffalo player WAS part of the play, and while he did not have full possession of the puck, he could have just as easily gained control of it, and if Gudas "lets up" as some have suggested, then maybe that Sabre player gets a nice clean run and look at the goaltender.

 

Keeping in mind the speed of the game and how fast things develop and break down on any given play, Gudas knew he simply could not let that player even SNIFF getting a scoring chance.

Gudas doesn't care much what the score is, how far up his team is......the man is paid to flippin "DEFEND" and that's exactly what he did.

 

I often here people say "Oh, you can't let up on a team, gotta have killer instinct....play the game like it's scoreless....give no quarter".

Well, dammit, that's EXACTLY what Gudas does and how he plays the game!

 

No one is going to confuse Rad-KO with a brain surgeon or rocket scientist, but the man knows his job, and he doesn't care who you are, if you are part of a play that could potentially score on his team, he is going to let you have it. Plain n simple.

Gudas "lets up" and that player gains control of the puck, breaks free of his Flyer checker (who was off balance by the way), and he scores, then people will be whining about "Hey, why did Gudas let him get in there like that....why didn't Gudas take the body......Gudas will never learn...he just let a guy walk into a scoring area"....etc, etc, piss, piss, moan, moan.

 

Rad-KO did his job....perhaps a bit heavy handed, but he did it nonetheless.

I've said this a thousand times all over this site in the past: Gudas USED to be that maniacal hitting machine who was very much like the proverbial bull in the china shop...he's come a long way from that.

But don't think for one second that he's lost his edge and at any time will be more than happy to punish a foolish forward who thinks he is going for a skate at the rink.

 

A shame the Buffalo player's head was down, but again, it's HIS own damned responsibility to not only skate head up, but KNOW WHO THE HELL IS ON THE ICE!

You'd have to be a card carrying moron to think that you can skate around, head down, be off limits, when a freight train like Gudas or his ilk are patrolling the ice.

 

I mean, is this really going to be a defense for NHL players?

"B-b-but I had my head down....he shouldn't have hit me"....oh cry me a river.

 

Quick coaches!

Start doing drills where your forward lines skate, pass to each other and enter the neutral and offensive zones with their heads as LOW to the ice as possible, so as to thwart ANY thoughts for the opposition who even thinks of hitting them!

Cmon coaches...its a strategy now!

 

Give me a break.

I am glad Gudas didn't get supplementary discipline.

He is who he is, works hard at his craft, and has done an admirable job in retaining what makes him a terror on the ice, while not becoming a complete liability to his team.

 

Will he do things on occasion that will anger his coaches, the fans, and even the league? Probably. But you have him on your team to play a certain way, you live with those drawbacks, hoping of course, they are kept to a bare minimum.

But you CERTAINLY don't ask the man to go from being a T-Rex on skates to Barney the Flippin Dinosaur just because his team is "up by enough goals" or some asshat decides he is gonna skate head down because 'no one's gonna touch him'.

 

/End minor rant

[OccamsRazor]

Steve Smith has a message or the kid........

 

https://media.riffsy.com/videos/605e52c425ee388a008bbc96c3f6fee8/webm

[icehole]

Ya know what...maybe I'm getting soft, but I changed my tune.  I think Gudas should have probably skipped this hit attempt.  Even the teams and players I can't stand the most (looking at you Gino), I respect more than any other athletes in the world.  At that point in the game, up 4 goals, against a small rookie that didn't cause any trouble prior, let up a little.

I think I just get fired up a little when I see people trashing players on the team for being tough.  The team needs toughness and an edge to it.  They've become too soft and Gudas is the only one doing anything that makes other teams fear them physically.