murraycraven Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, RJ8812 said: He's not a better defenseman than MacDonald completely agree.... McDud is overpaid but he is a better player than Manning - this should not even be up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Congrats Schenn and the Flyers good deal for both sides. Just curious did the arbitrator come up with this or did they agree beforehand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, canoli said: Congrats Schenn and the Flyers good deal for both sides. Just curious did the arbitrator come up with this or did they agree beforehand? this wasn't something the arbitrator came up with. They only award 1 or 2 year deals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, RJ8812 said: Not even close. Exactly Manning is better. Shot attempt and goal metrics present a high-level view of the performance of the team with a certain player on the ice. But they do little to describe the direct impact of that player on the direction of the game. That's where manually-tracked individual metrics like zone entries and exits can help to paint a more accurate picture of a player's strengths and weaknesses. The most widely-discussed weakness in MacDonald's game has been his supposed passive play in the neutral zone. At Broad Street Hockey, we've evaluated this aspect of his skillset on a number of occasions, and always came to the same conclusion -- Andrew MacDonald gives up too much space while defending the middle of the ice, allowing opponents to get in on the attack with possession of the puck far too often. That didn't change in 2015-16. On the Flyers, only Nick Schultz allowed a higher percentage of controlled entries when specifically targeted by an oncoming opponent Defenseman 5v5 Controlled Entry Percentage Allowed Shayne Gostisbehere 44.78% Brandon Manning 48.63% Evgeny Medvedev 49.69% Luke Schenn 51.05% Mark Streit 52.17% Michael Del Zotto 53.18% Radko Gudas 54.67% Andrew MacDonald 59.03% Nick Schultz 59.21% But even defenders of MacDonald usually acknowledge that his gap control isn't exactly stellar. They instead point to MacDonald's skills with the puck as his biggest asset, specifically his ability to generate efficient defensive zone exits. However, that claim doesn't really hold up under closer inspection. Last season, MacDonald sat right around Luke Schenn in terms of zone exit efficiency, and yet again that proved to be the case in 2015-16. Defenseman Percent of Controlled Exits out of all Successful Exits Percent of Controlled Exits out of All Exit Attempts Shayne Gostisbehere 72.07% 55.05% Michael Del Zotto 61.50% 48.63% Evgeny Medvedev 62.82% 45.31% Mark Streit 59.86% 45.24% Brandon Manning 60.58% 43.92% Luke Schenn 58.55% 42.01% Andrew MacDonald 57.06% 40.79% Radko Gudas 51.02% 35.48% Nick Schultz 50.46% 35.17% So yeah Mcdud sucks donkey balls.......even worse than Manning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, murraycraven said: completely agree.... McDud is overpaid but he is a better player than Manning - this should not even be up for debate. Well let's just say we agree to disagree. Mcdud in my eyes in the games i have seen was waaaaay worse. Way worse....the price tag just makes even more laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 45 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Light years better than the Okposo deal. [/spewage] Well, there are your UFA Apples and the RFA Oranges, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Man i have to say that trade of Mike Richards and Rob Bordson for Brayden Schenn Wayne Simmonds and 2nd rounder (traded for Nick GrossmanN)....looks like a steal right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 50 minutes ago, radoran said: Well, there are your UFA Apples and the RFA Oranges, no? Shush. Don't smear poo on my bait [/spewage] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 29 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Man i have to say that trade of Mike Richards and Rob Bordson for Brayden Schenn Wayne Simmonds and 2nd rounder (traded for Nick GrossmanN)....looks like a steal right now... The only way it made sense at the time was if Richards remained the physical and scoring presence that he showed for a couple years - 25-30 goals, 60 points - for a consistent basis. A David Backes, type, for example. There were reasons to think he would, and there were reasons to think he wouldn't. Los Angeles fell victim to the "win now" need and it paid off for them - they won two Cups. That's huge. Getting two Cups in relative quick order can increase interest in a sport. But it also obviously had long term ramifications. There are many people who would take two Cups for a team even if it had to give up, say, a Travis Konecny and a Travis Sanheim to do it. And while I think it's pretty clear that the Kings would be in a much better Cap (and long term roster) situation if they had kept the players they gave up, would they have won the Cups without Richards (and subsequently Crater - who was only available because the Flyers cut and ran from both of them)? It's a fair question, but I'd have to say "probably not." I think in addition to their obviously scoring contributions the recent Cup Finals experience for both players helped cement the locker room in the playoffs. Now it's up to the Flyers to take the players they got and win their Cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 20 minutes ago, radoran said: There are many people who would take two Cups for a team even if it had to give up, say, a Travis Konecny and a Travis Sanheim to do it. Raises hand..................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 3 hours ago, RJ8812 said: He's not a better defenseman than MacDonald. Not even close. Everyone hates MacDonald because he's just terribly overpaid Also, the Flyers won't be able to walk away from Manning's ruling. That's only available to GMs if it's over a certain amount ($3m???) Over $3.5 million. So there's no walking away from Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I like the years but to be honest with one decent season under his belt I really don't think it warrants 5 mil a year raise at this point. I was thinking 4.25mil per maybe 4.50 mil per tops. I Pray he honors that money and continues to get better because last year was his best year and I still don't think that was a 5mil dollar year tbh but hey that's the market for ya. I am probably wrong like usual but I say again I pray he continues to improve and really earns his spot as one of the top wingers on the team now and in the future... I have faith in him I really do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Schenner on the radio for those who care....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 17 hours ago, ruxpin said: Light years better than the Okposo deal. [/spewage] I am waiting for the rebuttal from Applebee's I just looked at his deal and that reeks of Paul Holmgren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Fwiw, the opinion of a group of hockey buzz bloggers is not very positive on the Schenn deal. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/HockeyBuzz-Hotstove/Hotstove-Thoughts-On-Schenns-Extension-With-The-Flyers/187/78347 And here's Meltzer's view. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Quick-Hits-Manning-Re-Signed-Cap-Space-Schenn-and-More/45/78348 4) My reaction to the Flyers' four-year contract with Brayden Schenn is that it's right in the ballpark that most expected. The cap hit ($5.125 million) creeped above $5 million -- but not all that much -- because the deal involves pre-empting two seasons worth of unrestricted free agency eligibility (which always inflates cost). As long as he stays healthy and remains on the top power play unit, there is no reason why Schenn can not regularly approach last season's statistics as he reaches what, for most players, are the prime years of a year. He already has two 20-goal seasons under his belt in the NHL. Whether he can play the pace he did in the second half of last season over 79 games (remember that he will start next season on a three-game suspension from the NHL) but his aggregate totals are reachable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 38 minutes ago, brelic said: Fwiw, the opinion of a group of hockey buzz bloggers is not very positive on the Schenn deal. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/HockeyBuzz-Hotstove/Hotstove-Thoughts-On-Schenns-Extension-With-The-Flyers/187/78347 And here's Meltzer's view. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Quick-Hits-Manning-Re-Signed-Cap-Space-Schenn-and-More/45/78348 4) My reaction to the Flyers' four-year contract with Brayden Schenn is that it's right in the ballpark that most expected. The cap hit ($5.125 million) creeped above $5 million -- but not all that much -- because the deal involves pre-empting two seasons worth of unrestricted free agency eligibility (which always inflates cost). As long as he stays healthy and remains on the top power play unit, there is no reason why Schenn can not regularly approach last season's statistics as he reaches what, for most players, are the prime years of a year. He already has two 20-goal seasons under his belt in the NHL. Whether he can play the pace he did in the second half of last season over 79 games (remember that he will start next season on a three-game suspension from the NHL) but his aggregate totals are reachable. I'm sorry, but one guy said Schenn will cap out as a 3rd liner????? 3rd liners do not score 50-60 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 1 hour ago, brelic said: Fwiw, the opinion of a group of hockey buzz bloggers is not very positive on the Schenn deal. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/HockeyBuzz-Hotstove/Hotstove-Thoughts-On-Schenns-Extension-With-The-Flyers/187/78347 And here's Meltzer's view. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Quick-Hits-Manning-Re-Signed-Cap-Space-Schenn-and-More/45/78348 4) My reaction to the Flyers' four-year contract with Brayden Schenn is that it's right in the ballpark that most expected. The cap hit ($5.125 million) creeped above $5 million -- but not all that much -- because the deal involves pre-empting two seasons worth of unrestricted free agency eligibility (which always inflates cost). As long as he stays healthy and remains on the top power play unit, there is no reason why Schenn can not regularly approach last season's statistics as he reaches what, for most players, are the prime years of a year. He already has two 20-goal seasons under his belt in the NHL. Whether he can play the pace he did in the second half of last season over 79 games (remember that he will start next season on a three-game suspension from the NHL) but his aggregate totals are reachable. Thanks for posting, @brelic. That Lewis guy really is pretty clueless. I don't think he watches any Flyers games or can read stat sheets. The Tanner guy likes his Leafs a little too much. Delusional homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 3 hours ago, brelic said: Fwiw, the opinion of a group of hockey buzz bloggers is not very positive on the Schenn deal. I would put too much into their thoughts hell they use Killorn and Kardi's contracts for comparisons.... ....yet Killorn hasn't ever scored more than 17 goals (his 2nd) in a season the last two he has scored 15 and 14. And his career high is 41 points. Piss poor. Kadri has scored 20 once 3 years ago and scored 17 goals for a career high 45 points last year. Really really piss poor. I'll give Brayden Schenn the benefit of the doubt he will continue to trend upward in production.....until at least he doesn't........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Really really piss poor. Good post, OR. For me, the comparisons are just atrocious. This isn't even about whether Schenn is worth the amount or term of the contract. Like you said, benefit of the doubt, etc. It's just completely clueless random comparisons to players that were chosen just because, well, fanboy. But, okay, whatever. The other writer--Lewis--just has no idea what he's talking about. "Top out on 3rd line." He's played above the third line for the last two years, anyway. I don't remember further back than that. But to say utterly stupid crap and act like your writing has some kind of expertise to it. That's just spewing garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 12 hours ago, brelic said: Fwiw, the opinion of a group of hockey buzz bloggers is not very positive on the Schenn deal. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/HockeyBuzz-Hotstove/Hotstove-Thoughts-On-Schenns-Extension-With-The-Flyers/187/78347 And here's Meltzer's view. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Quick-Hits-Manning-Re-Signed-Cap-Space-Schenn-and-More/45/78348 4) My reaction to the Flyers' four-year contract with Brayden Schenn is that it's right in the ballpark that most expected. The cap hit ($5.125 million) creeped above $5 million -- but not all that much -- because the deal involves pre-empting two seasons worth of unrestricted free agency eligibility (which always inflates cost). As long as he stays healthy and remains on the top power play unit, there is no reason why Schenn can not regularly approach last season's statistics as he reaches what, for most players, are the prime years of a year. He already has two 20-goal seasons under his belt in the NHL. Whether he can play the pace he did in the second half of last season over 79 games (remember that he will start next season on a three-game suspension from the NHL) but his aggregate totals are reachable. Those guys actually get paid to spew that garbage? 3rd line? Schenn was the 47th highest scoring PLAYER in the NHL last year. That puts him in the top half of FIRST liners in scoring. He can play all 3 forward positions. he's also pretty durable...we've all seen him take some hits that likely would have concussed many other players, yet he bounced right back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: Those guys actually get paid to spew that garbage? 3rd line? Schenn was the 47th highest scoring PLAYER in the NHL last year. That puts him in the top half of FIRST liners in scoring. He can play all 3 forward positions. he's also pretty durable...we've all seen him take some hits that likely would have concussed many other players, yet he bounced right back. It;s just click bait.....and i guess it worked.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 On 7/25/2016 at 6:19 PM, AJgoal said: Over $3.5 million. So there's no walking away from Manning. adavanced stats are quite misleading, especially from that website. Corsi rel without Corsi, Zone starts, QoC, QoT, WOWY, High Danger chance% etc is pretty useless on it's own. They tell you that depth defenseman like Colin Miller, Jakub Kindl, and Barrett Jackman were elite last year, and that Pietrangelo, and Josi are below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I'm sure you can find examples through the league where Schenn is over/under paid....but for the most part, it's a respectable deal. The Flyers should indeed see his peak prime years during this deal, so that is promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 On 7/25/2016 at 3:44 PM, OccamsRazor said: Man i have to say that trade of Mike Richards and Rob Bordson for Brayden Schenn Wayne Simmonds and 2nd rounder (traded for Nick GrossmanN)....looks like a steal right now... Yep, when that trade went down some Flyers fans and hockey fans in general thought the Kings got the better end of the deal but looking at it years later, it ended up being one of Holmgren's better trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 On 7/29/2016 at 0:41 PM, Lindbergh31 said: one of Holmgren's better trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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