Schenn

[fanaticV3.0]

20 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

That's a helluva an achievement. 

 

There are world leaders who can't do that. Hell, most of them can't.

[Podein25]

Just now, fanaticV3.0 said:

There are world leaders who can't do that. Hell, most of them can't.

 

It's true. Welcome back you jerk.

[fanaticV3.0]

12 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

It's true. Welcome back you jerk.

 

Thanks asshole!

[King Knut]

23 hours ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

We are far enough removed from the trade and he has been here long enough that if anyone is still comparing him to Richards, they lose credibility with me; because they are clearly different players.

 

This thread shouldn't even exist at this point in the season, after his best season as a pro.

 

There is still so much about Homer's actions around that time that make no sense and it's hard to divorce any particular detail from that overall confusion. 

 

However, most people who bemoan Schenn due to this comparison tend to ignore that we also got Simmonds in the deal who has lead the team in goals for 3 years and has been in the top 2 on the team in goals ever since the trade.

 

Why do we keep pondering whether  "Richards for Schenn" worked out when we should be asking how "Richards for Simmonds work out?"  When you're completely honest, and you ask how did Richards for Schenn and Simmonds (and Cousins) work out, the answer is a simple yes.

 

NOW all that said, i'm still not on board with Homer making those trades to begin with and NOT because of the trades themselves, but because of Homer's concurrent decision to go all in on Bryzgalov.  

 

If Homer makes those trades with an eye to rebuilding, follows them up with a deadline deal for Pronger and looks for a young goalie he can mold into the star of tomorrow (i.e. today) then we're golden and the moves are brilliant.   In fact, although I loved and defended both Carter and Richards here repeatedly, my biggest disappointment over the Richards deal was that it didn't involve Jonathan Quick who was at the time only just emerging as the starter over Bernier in LA and was not yet the supserstar mega billion multi decade contract holder he is now.  

 

Those were actually brilliant trades... that made utterly ZERO sense in the scheme of everything else Homer was doing.  

Why make impressive "rebuild" trades and follow them up with "win now, screw the future" moves?  

 

Did he not realize that Richards and Carter were the heart of the team (for better or worse)?  Did he truly believe Simmonds and Schenn and a (presumably high) draft pick would replace the heart of the lineup and the most relied upon players right away?

 

This was the moment Homer should have been fired.  The signing of Bryzgalov on the heels of those trades was utterly moronic. 

 

Then a year later, he sealed the deal of ineptitude by letting Jagr and Carle walk in favor of trying to sign players he literally could never sign and trading his #2 overall pick in JVR for Luke friggin' Schenn.  

 

I've written extensively about how this was the series of moves that utterly destroyed a once proud franchise and left us where we are today so I won't get into it.

 

acquiring Hartnell and Timmo were good movies, but seriously.... HOMER WAS A TERRIBLE GM.  History must never forget this.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pilldoc]

11 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Why make impressive "rebuild" trades and follow them up with "win now, screw the future" moves?  

 

Did he not realize that Richards and Carter were the heart of the team (for better or worse)?  Did he truly believe Simmonds and Schenn and a (presumably high) draft pick would replace the heart of the lineup and the most relied upon players right away?

 

This was the moment Homer should have been fired.  The signing of Bryzgalov on the heels of those trades was utterly moronic. 

 

Then a year later, he sealed the deal of ineptitude by letting Jagr and Carle walk in favor of trying to sign players he literally could never sign and trading his #2 overall pick in JVR for Luke friggin' Schenn.  

 

I've written extensively about how this was the series of moves that utterly destroyed a once proud franchise and left us where we are today so I won't get into it.

 

Great post ....may I add......

 

you forgot the icing on top of the cake move.....signing...(drum roll please).... VLC!!!!!

 

The move of all moves that made absolutely no effin sense!  In a stroke of sheer genius was Hexy able to move him and the bad Schenn to LA.

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

Great post ....may I add......

 

you forgot the icing on top of the cake move.....signing...(drum roll please).... VLC!!!!!

 

The move of all moves that made absolutely no effin sense!  In a stroke of sheer genius was Hexy able to move him and the bad Schenn to LA.

 

VLC was a reaction to losing Jagr IMHO a bigger domino falling down the chain.  .  He thought he could pull it off again.  Why he would overpay for a ridiculous number of years for VLC and not pay Jager for 2 years boggles my mind to no end.  

[fanaticV3.0]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

There is still so much about Homer's actions around that time that make no sense and it's hard to divorce any particular detail from that overall confusion. 

 

However, most people who bemoan Schenn due to this comparison tend to ignore that we also got Simmonds in the deal who has lead the team in goals for 3 years and has been in the top 2 on the team in goals ever since the trade.

 

Why do we keep pondering whether  "Richards for Schenn" worked out when we should be asking how "Richards for Simmonds work out?"  When you're completely honest, and you ask how did Richards for Schenn and Simmonds (and Cousins) work out, the answer is a simple yes.

 

NOW all that said, i'm still not on board with Homer making those trades to begin with and NOT because of the trades themselves, but because of Homer's concurrent decision to go all in on Bryzgalov.  

 

If Homer makes those trades with an eye to rebuilding, follows them up with a deadline deal for Pronger and looks for a young goalie he can mold into the star of tomorrow (i.e. today) then we're golden and the moves are brilliant.   In fact, although I loved and defended both Carter and Richards here repeatedly, my biggest disappointment over the Richards deal was that it didn't involve Jonathan Quick who was at the time only just emerging as the starter over Bernier in LA and was not yet the supserstar mega billion multi decade contract holder he is now.  

 

Those were actually brilliant trades... that made utterly ZERO sense in the scheme of everything else Homer was doing.  

Why make impressive "rebuild" trades and follow them up with "win now, screw the future" moves?  

 

Did he not realize that Richards and Carter were the heart of the team (for better or worse)?  Did he truly believe Simmonds and Schenn and a (presumably high) draft pick would replace the heart of the lineup and the most relied upon players right away?

 

This was the moment Homer should have been fired.  The signing of Bryzgalov on the heels of those trades was utterly moronic. 

 

Then a year later, he sealed the deal of ineptitude by letting Jagr and Carle walk in favor of trying to sign players he literally could never sign and trading his #2 overall pick in JVR for Luke friggin' Schenn.  

 

I've written extensively about how this was the series of moves that utterly destroyed a once proud franchise and left us where we are today so I won't get into it.

 

acquiring Hartnell and Timmo were good movies, but seriously.... HOMER WAS A TERRIBLE GM.  History must never forget this.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think forgetting it, even if for 10 minutes, would be the best thing for you. You seem absolutely stuck on it. Holmgren is gone. Richards and Carter have been gone even longer. The organization has replenished a fair amount of its form system. Let it go bro.

 

And what we got in return for them? They are not this team's problem. They are regularly among the team's leaders in points  – and pretty much have been every year since they came here. Those trades have worked out all right for the team.

 

You sound like this is the early 90s. Relax bud.

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

I think forgetting it, even if for 10 minutes, would be the best thing for you. You seem absolutely stuck on it. Holmgren is gone. Richards and Carter have been gone even longer. The organization has replenished a fair amount of its form system. Let it go bro.

 

And what we got in return for them? They are not this team's problem. They are regularly among the team's leaders in points  – and pretty much have been every year since they came here. Those trades have worked out all right for the team.

 

 

I think you missed my point, but that's okay.  Let me ask you a question...  if not to talk about the Flyers and what's going on with them and what's gone on with them... why the hell do you come here?  

 

 

[fanaticV3.0]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 

 

I think you missed my point, but that's okay.  Let me ask you a question...  if not to talk about the Flyers and what's going on with them and what's gone on with them... why the hell do you come here?  

 

 

 

Who said not to talk about the Flyers?

[ruxpin]

4 hours ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

Who said not to talk about the Flyers?

SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THAT !   

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

8 hours ago, AJgoal said:

We were talking about it in the chat. It's tough because I don't think he was trying to hit Miller. It almost looks like Miller puts his head down into Schenn as he jumps by. That said, I don't know exactly what Schenn WAS trying to do there, and he did hit Miller in the head, and definitely left his feet. It's a somewhat bizarre play.

 

I think Schenn is trying to avoid Smith's left foot.  Schenn is cutting back across the ice and would have tangled his feet with Smith's left foot so he tried to jump over.  That's what I'm going with anyways.

[murraycraven]

There is an easy answer to all of this... Just trade Schenn for a 34 year old grinder.... That is what this team needs!

[ruxpin]

23 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

There is an easy answer to all of this... Just trade Schenn for a 34 year old grinder.... That is what this team needs!

Can never have enough of those ! 

[AbelMorpheus]

I had so many nasty and derisive things that I wanted to say to you ALL. I've been here forever. Really enjoyed the give and take, but some of you you need to reflect on your responses. Who do I have to talk to remove myself from this site......Digity are you the man

[flyerrod]

On 10/28/2016 at 10:48 AM, King Knut said:

This whole team needs to figure out why they're giving up so many damn goals.  

 

Neither goalie has  taken the reigns and shown himself to be the go to guy. Some of the shots that have been left in by both goalies have been horrendous. I hope at least one of them steps up and shows the desire to take the helm. I think that is the first place you look when wondering why so many goals.....

[icehole]

7 hours ago, AbelMorpheus said:

I had so many nasty and derisive things that I wanted to say to you ALL. I've been here forever. Really enjoyed the give and take, but some of you you need to reflect on your responses. Who do I have to talk to remove myself from this site......Digity are you the man

Relax a little.  I get flamed way worse than this.  When these guys disagree with you, they get a little aggressive, but it's just a forum.  I think they just had a problem with your lack of reasoning.  You just threw out a random thought and didn't back it up with anything.  If you say the sky is green and don't give a reason why, of course people will disagree and tell you the sky is blue.

[flyercanuck]

10 hours ago, AbelMorpheus said:

I had so many nasty and derisive things that I wanted to say to you ALL. I've been here forever. Really enjoyed the give and take, but some of you you need to reflect on your responses. Who do I have to talk to remove myself from this site......Digity are you the man

 

Come on Abel...you've got thicker skin than that.

 

People were just disagreeing with you. 

[OccamsRazor]

13 hours ago, AbelMorpheus said:

I had so many nasty and derisive things that I wanted to say to you ALL. I've been here forever. Really enjoyed the give and take, but some of you you need to reflect on your responses. Who do I have to talk to remove myself from this site......Digity are you the man

 

 

C'mon dude no need for that. Guys and gals here aren't going to agree with you here much it is just how it is.

 

But all you have to do is not come back. But really i don't think it is needed i don't remember anyone being mean in their post just pointing out their opinion as well. But at the end of the day it's up to you. hf101 is the guy you need to talk too.

[brelic]

I really don’t understand the Schenn hate from within the team. Dude keeps getting the short end of the stick, shuffled all around the lineup, in and out of position, and despite his continued and increasing production, gets treated like a 3rd/4th liner. So strange.

Meanwhile, Couturier gets second, and third, and fourth, and fifth chances, yet fails to produce. He's on pace for 30 points, and though this will likely increase, we're probably looking at 40-45 at the most, which is basically just maintaining his production level. I've never seen so much effort in trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I saw a bunch of clips from last night, and he is so weak on the puck. 

Why not try this:

LW	Center	RW
Raffl	Giroux	Simmonds
Konecny	Schenn	Voracek
Read	Couturier	VandeVelde
Cousins	Bellemare	Lyubimov

 

I'd even look at trying Cousins on the 2nd line, and moving Raffl to the 3rd (over VV) or 4th (replacing Cousins).

 

Also, can you believe that Weise is already a healthy scratch? Four more years of this? Lol!

 

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

I really don’t understand the Schenn hate from within the team. Dude keeps getting the short end of the stick, shuffled all around the lineup, in and out of position, and despite his continued and increasing production, gets treated like a 3rd/4th liner. So strange.

Meanwhile, Couturier gets second, and third, and fourth, and fifth chances, yet fails to produce. He's on pace for 30 points, and though this will likely increase, we're probably looking at 40-45 at the most, which is basically just maintaining his production level. I've never seen so much effort in trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I saw a bunch of clips from last night, and he is so weak on the puck. 

Why not try this:

LW	Center	RW
Raffl	Giroux	Simmonds
Konecny	Schenn	Voracek
Read	Couturier	VandeVelde
Cousins	Bellemare	Lyubimov

 

I'd even look at trying Cousins on the 2nd line, and moving Raffl to the 3rd (over VV) or 4th (replacing Cousins).

 

Also, can you believe that Weise is already a healthy scratch? Four more years of this? Lol!

 

 

 

I think Schenns more of a shooter than a playmaker....hence the wing position.

[brelic]

13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I think Schenns more of a shooter than a playmaker....hence the wing position.

 

Yes, good point, but they seem to be trying him at center again. Plus, Konecny and Voracek happen to be excellent playmakers

 

If Couturier isn't going to benefit from it, may as well try someone else who can, right? 

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yes, good point, but they seem to be trying him at center again. Plus, Konecny and Voracek happen to be excellent playmakers

 

If Couturier isn't going to benefit from it, may as well try someone else who can, right? 

 

I think the team could benefit some with Coots lack of speed combined with his good defense to see him tried back on the 3rd line.

 

Hell i'd try this lineup....

 

13 Roman Lyubimov - 28 Claude Giroux - 92 Jakub Voracek
11 Travis Konecny - 10 Brayden Schenn - 17 Wayne Simmonds
76 P-E Bellemare - 14 Sean Couturier - 24 Matt Read 
76 Chris VandeVelde - 12 Michael Raffl - 22 Dale Weise

[icehole]

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

I really don’t understand the Schenn hate from within the team. Dude keeps getting the short end of the stick, shuffled all around the lineup, in and out of position, and despite his continued and increasing production, gets treated like a 3rd/4th liner. So strange.

Meanwhile, Couturier gets second, and third, and fourth, and fifth chances, yet fails to produce. He's on pace for 30 points, and though this will likely increase, we're probably looking at 40-45 at the most, which is basically just maintaining his production level. I've never seen so much effort in trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I saw a bunch of clips from last night, and he is so weak on the puck. 

Why not try this:

LW	Center	RW
Raffl	Giroux	Simmonds
Konecny	Schenn	Voracek
Read	Couturier	VandeVelde
Cousins	Bellemare	Lyubimov

 

I'd even look at trying Cousins on the 2nd line, and moving Raffl to the 3rd (over VV) or 4th (replacing Cousins).

 

Also, can you believe that Weise is already a healthy scratch? Four more years of this? Lol!

 

 

With couturier's weak play this season, I want to move him off of the second line.  I ran into the same issue of who to replace him with.  Cousins, schenn, or Laughton  (when he returns) are the options.  For some reason, moving schenn to center makes me feel better than having cousins or Laughton on the second line.

11-28-17

12-10-93

24-14-13

25-78-22 (?)

      21-13

 

Speaking of 22, is anyone else a little disappointed?  Ryan white is the perfect 4th liner, but they let him go to Phoenix for a 1yr/$1M while they sign weise to a 4yr deal.  Weise has been suspended 3 games and healthy scratched 1 game in the first 12.

 

I also feel like they have too many players.  How does this work out when MDZ and Laughton come back?

[AJgoal]

Laughton to the A. Schultz (I guess?) To the A. Manning will get claimed, and MacDonald has to play 40 games if the recent play of Manning makes them want to protect him.

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

Speaking of 22, is anyone else a little disappointed?  Ryan white is the perfect 4th liner, but they let him go to Phoenix for a 1yr/$1M while they sign weise to a 4yr deal.  Weise has been suspended 3 games and healthy scratched 1 game in the first 12.

ugh, yeah.  Just watching Weise not be able to take a pass in the NZ while he's moving full speed is suk.

 

I was expecting an upgrade to White, and based on his play in MTL in what is now 2 seasons ago I thought that's who we'd be getting.  That guy had better  hands, was larger, skated better than RW... the guy we have has either slipped significantly or hasn't found his stride in Philly yet.   He was not much of a contributor for the Blackhawks once he was traded there last year, but yeah 4 more years of this isn't looking too great,  it is still early he's still new to Hakstol's system, he's new to his teammates.... maybe once he gets a comfort level with those things his play will pick up.

 

but by and large I agree with what you're saying.