Blow this mess up or stay course!

[murraycraven]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

My biggest issue regardless of what line Coots plays on is his effort or lack thereof to me from what i saw in the Boston game he should be bench plain and simple....

 

...if you are going to send a message then everyone should be held accountable...and he sucked donkey balls in that game with his poor play and effort.

 

SEND HIM A MESSAGE...IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED PERIOD!

 

And i agree he is what he is...a 3rd line center!

 

 

I totally agree but I also think this goes right back up to the top of the Team as CG has been very guilty of the same thing as of late.   I think it was mentioned before in this post but my biggest issue right now is the constant line juggling and the healthy scratches.    To me it seems that Hak has a different set of standards for the vets and the kids.    Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but it is hard not to notice it...

[King Knut]

On 1/15/2017 at 4:16 PM, Jam1986 said:

These two games sucked very hard! So what do you guys thinks the  best way to blow it up or tweek it? Keep all prospects where they are now and let them to learn. The big team keep the three young ones and say bye bye to all others. Also would you put up G or Jake up in the expansion draft? Just a dump of contract and get picks. Be nice just blowing of steam! As I say a Flyers fan forever,

 

Without knowing what is going on inside Hakstol's head (it is a bit confusing out here to the rest of us Dave!!!), it's really impossible to say what this situation is.  

 

A few things:

In two more games, Hextall can waive MacDonald to the Phantoms and play whoever the hell he wants.  Hopefully soon he can trade at least two of Schultz, Streit and MDZ as well. 

 

Beyond that I think the big thing is that their system is broken.  Hakstol has tinkered and tampered too much.  They don't seem to play a consistent system and when they do he seems to change it on them mid-game.  

 

He seems to have them reacting and changing their game depending on who they're playing.  He seems to want them to be a high scoring team against high scoring teams and a low scoring team against low scoring teams.  

 

They seem to be switching their game plan between periods a lot.  And I think it's them switching, not the opposition cracking their system because the Flyers really seem to come out to 2nd and 3rd periods looking entirely different.

 

I honestly don't know what he's doing and I think Hextall has to have a few hard conversations with him.  I know Hextall isn't a coach and doesn't want to be.  He's not going to necessarily be able to tell Hakstol how to do his job.  But he needs to be able to tell him he's not currently getting it done and have Hak explain wtf he's doing and wtf he thinks is going on.  

 

This team is too all over the place.  

 

Frankly, looking at things the way they are, if I'm Hextall, I'm thinking seriously about a coaching change to address this team's inconsistency and I'm thinking seriously about Shattenkirk.  If not via a trade now, then on July 1.  

 

I can't condone spending 10 million on the guy unless it's only for 3 or 4 years.  He wants longer, he's going to have to take a lot less.  That's just the marketplace.  If someone else is willing to give it to him, Hextall will have to try to make a better argument for sanity in order to get to winning.

 

Right now the top 6 have the same problems:

 

1)  They're simply NOT PLAYING WITH THE SAME PARTNERS CONSISTENTLY ENOUGH.  

 

Hakstol blows up lines every night at this point.  He blows them up when they play poorly, he blows them up when the play well.  There's no rhyme or reason.  PLayers don't know each other well enough to play effectively in this way.  Coots gets knocked here for his lack of scoring, but what he is significantly good at is controlled entries.  HOWEVER, who does he pass to in order to maintain that control?  Simmonds usually comes from spot X and goes to spot Y at Z speed with Q men covering him.  However Jake comes from C, going to B at A rate of speed with T men covering him.  There's traffic where Coots can put the puck, and If he's playing with Schenn or Simmer he can drop it there and they'll battle through.  If he's playing with Raffl or TK, he'd better not.    

 

Solutions:  

-If I'm Hakstol, I'm putting Konecny, Coots and Jake together and Simmer, Giroux and Raffle together for the foreseeable future.  They have a good night.  Great, work to make it better.  They have a bad night, WORK TO FIX THE DAMN PROBLEM.  Don't just blow up the lines!  

-I'm sticking Schenn on the third line and keeping him as fresh as possible for the PP.  Schenn isn't a skill guy.  He's not a vision guy.  He's not a controlled entry guy and he's not the most responsible guy defensively when he thinks he's on a scoring line.  Stick him with Read and give them VERY specific duties to shut down.  Schenn will not score LESS if he's on the third line.  He only scores on the PP anyway, give him MORE PP minutes, fewer 5 on 5 minutes.

-Weise has to put up or shut up now.  He's straight up not playing well.  Is this like Jake last year where he needs time to digest the system?  I don't care.  Jake was a top scorer.  Weise is a defensive specialist who can chip in once in a while.  He should at least be one of those things.  He's neither.  

-Weise, Bellemare, Gordon, Lyubimov, and Vandevelde are NEVER to touch the ice when the team is losing with 12 minutes or less in the third period and NEVER, EVER EVER are they to touch the ice in Overtime.  PERIOD.  END OF DISCUSSION.  

 

-SETTLE THE SYSTEM.  Find an objective eye.  A friend, an analyst, someone who knows the game.  Figure out what your guys do well and then work on executing and ironing out.  STOP REINVENTING THE WHEEL EVERY NIGHT.  

 

2)  They can't count on their defensive pairings for any consistency at all.  

 

Now I know, I know you're all thinking, "but but but Provo..."  and he's great.  But he's one friggin 19 year old kid and 9 times out of 10 his partner is terrible.  

 

Mac is terrible (though better than most of you like to think).

Gudas is pretty decent actually, but he's been hurt for and playing through it for about a month.

MDZ is horribly inconsistent and often just horrible.

Streit is great on the PP but older than the hills and out of the play 85% of the time in his own end.

Ghost is terrible in front of his own net.  He's been trying hard, and he's been doing better recovering when he screws up, but he still screws up.  To boot, we're not getting much of the "Ghost Magic" that made him a Calder finalist last year.  I'm sure that's by design.  But frankly, we need the Ghost magic AND more consistent play in his own end.

Schultz isn't playing consistently enough, to get his game going, but probably can't play 18 minutes a night and besides he costs too much in bottles of ensure behind the bench.  

Manning is Manning.  Meh.  

 

However if you add Shattenkirk and don't have to play Mac anymore and then ship off Streit and MDZ, suddenly things get brighter and the pairings can make more sense responsibility wise.  

 

No matter what happens with Shattenkirk, this team IS SIMPLY NOT GOING TO GET BETTER UNTIL THE TOP 6 CAN COUNT ON THE DEFENSE TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE AND RESPONSIBLE.  

 

3) Jake and G have the skills.  They have the ability to take control of the play and the game... they seem unable to do it with any consistency.  

 

When you look at those kinds of leaders who take over games and dominate, they're at it for long long stretches of just taking it to the opposition and giving them fits.  They might score a big goal when it's needed, but they didn't come out of nowhere.  They've been at it and at it driving the play and making things happen at both ends for every second of every shift and eventually it pays off.    

 

Crosby tends to be a little sneaky, erupting when he's needed, but for the most part the real elite leaders of teams in this league are just difficult to play against CONSTANTLY.  There isn't a single member of this team I would put in that category.  Provo is even still a "Someday" guy, though he's incredibly good now and easily the team's top D Man.  But on offense, there is simply no one.  Jake is the closest.   Even Giroux seems to have shifts where he looks like, "Well I played hard last shift... something good will happen next shift. Let's see what materializes".  

 

Is that on the players or is that on the system?  

Do they lack desire?  Do they lack know how? or do they lack conditioning to put forth that effort?  

 

I really can't say, but it's been this way since 2012 IMHO.  

 

[OccamsRazor]

JVR to Philly for the Other Schenn........

 

 

[murraycraven]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

JVR to Philly for the Other Schenn........

 

 

 

E4!!!

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, murraycraven said:

Well, we are down 2 Couts haters then...

 

Progress!

 

As an aside, I find it humorous that guys who have likely never seen a Jr hockey game before can say without a hint of humility that the Flyers scouts suck. 

[canoli]

Shoulda never traded Rinaldo. 

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, canoli said:

Shoulda never traded Rinaldo. 

 

That's funny as hell right there!

[OH1FlyersFan]

The League has changed how the sport is played.  Cardichi says the Flyers are playing without hunger and passion.  That they need to play with snarl and anger.  Heck, I'd be satisfied with just "grit."  Unfortunately that style/type of play is no longer permitted in this League.  That was my takeaway watching the last several games, particularly the last two.  The Flyers of old (and that'd be 5, but more likely 10 or 15 years ago), even in a losing effort, would have at least started hitting hard, playing nasty, fighting, something, anything.  It used to be the Flyers made the other team earn and rue the win. Not now.  These roll-over efforts are hard to watch.  Cardichi is right.  They need passion and anger. But the League won't let that happen as it's neutered the game and in doing so, the Flyers in particular.  They've made it very clear the old style of play embraced by the Flyers is unwelcome.  So, the Flyers have to learn to play the new game.  They were slow to that realization and are still learning what that means.  It'll be a few more years before they catch on and then a few more to catch up.  Now having said that, I wish the Organization would give the League a huge middle finger and a heartfelt F U and play old time Flyers hockey.  I know that makes me a troglodyte and 95% of those on this board will disagree, and that's ok.  But it sure would make me feel better watching losing effort after losing effort.  Make the opponents afraid to play in Philly again, if nothing else.  Get something out of this other than MAYBE the first pick in the next draft.  No guarantees there, either.

[Podein25]

18 minutes ago, OH1FlyersFan said:

 I know that makes me a troglodyte and 95% of those on this board will disagree, and that's ok.

 

Nah, you're welcome to your perspective.

 

Part of me agrees: I mean, if you're gonna lose 5-0 and be humiliated, you might as well go out fighting right? Some of my best friends are troglodytes!

[OH1FlyersFan]

Thanks Podein!  It was mostly wishful thinking on my part.  In fact, the way this team is built, I don't think it can even do what I was suggesting.  Not a nasty bone in this bunch - except for maybe Gudas.  Can't blame the League for everything, unfortunately, but I'd sure like to.  The players bear of lot of responsibility here too.  

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, OH1FlyersFan said:

Thanks Podein!  It was mostly wishful thinking on my part.  In fact, the way this team is built, I don't think it can even do what I was suggesting.  Not a nasty bone in this bunch - except for maybe Gudas.  Can't blame the League for everything, unfortunately, but I'd sure like to.  The players bear of lot of responsibility here too.  

 

Maybe. I think you said it though: the new NHL makes it near impossible for people "to play on the edge" because you're so terrified of getting out of position or whatever. I think what people are seeing as "lack of effort" is often actually just players trying to figure out what to do in the new NHL. That's not to forgive them, I just think that it might be symptom not cause.

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

So you're ok with the Flyers going through the motions not giving it a 100% because they are losing right now even though they are in the last wild card spot?? You're ok with them packing it in for the rest of the season??

 

No, I was just pointing out that the Kings (that you brought up as an example of a heart and soul squad) were doing the exact same thing (playing uninspired) as the Flyers are this season.

 

Only they were doing it with a hell of a lot better defence.

[pilldoc]

46 minutes ago, OH1FlyersFan said:

The League has changed how the sport is played.  Cardichi says the Flyers are playing without hunger and passion.  That they need to play with snarl and anger.  Heck, I'd be satisfied with just "grit."  Unfortunately that style/type of play is no longer permitted in this League.  That was my takeaway watching the last several games, particularly the last two.  The Flyers of old (and that'd be 5, but more likely 10 or 15 years ago), even in a losing effort, would have at least started hitting hard, playing nasty, fighting, something, anything.  It used to be the Flyers made the other team earn and rue the win. Not now.  These roll-over efforts are hard to watch.  Cardichi is right.  They need passion and anger. But the League won't let that happen as it's neutered the game and in doing so, the Flyers in particular.  They've made it very clear the old style of play embraced by the Flyers is unwelcome.  So, the Flyers have to learn to play the new game.  They were slow to that realization and are still learning what that means.  It'll be a few more years before they catch on and then a few more to catch up.  Now having said that, I wish the Organization would give the League a huge middle finger and a heartfelt F U and play old time Flyers hockey.  I know that makes me a troglodyte and 95% of those on this board will disagree, and that's ok.  But it sure would make me feel better watching losing effort after losing effort.  Make the opponents afraid to play in Philly again, if nothing else.  Get something out of this other than MAYBE the first pick in the next draft.  No guarantees there, either.

 

Very astute observation ans one that is not entirely off point.  Flyer teams of yesteryear would have given the Caps a bloody dose for that 5-0 shellacking.  Yet, in the "New" NHL, that is not allowed.  On one hand that Flyers will always have that history no matter how how management tries to distance itself from this team's history and yet on the other hand this team really has no identity.  Today they would rather run up the and curl up in a fetal ball position than show some balls and emotion. This team has no identity and IMO really is a ship with out a rudder.  We can all talk about "core" players and who to keep and who not to keep, but the reality is they have a group of players who minus a few who would have no idea on how to handle adversity.  I have read through the majority of the posts regarding this topic and in reality there is no right answer.

 

For the record, I'm not willing to "blow everything up"....however, I am also not opposed to moving players who are not giving a solid 100% every night and who are not buying into Hakstol's system.   Dead weight on this team MUST be cut loose.

 

I think @King Knut had an excellent post not much more to add.

[King Knut]

7 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

 

For the record, I'm not willing to "blow everything up"....however, I am also not opposed to moving players who are not giving a solid 100% every night and who are not buying into Hakstol's system.   Dead weight on this team MUST be cut loose.

 

I think @King Knut had an excellent post not much more to add.

 

Thanks pilldoc... I'm just very confused about Hakstol's system right now.  Seems a bit all over the place.  Unlike Chief's which was non existant, Hak's changes from moment to moment, night to night.  That and the line shifting just perplexes me and it seems like it's perplexing the players a bit too.

 

But it could just be my impression from the outside looking in.  who knows!?

[pilldoc]

13 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I'm just very confused about Hakstol's system right now.

 

I think alot of us are at this point. That may be due to the fact that Hakstol is trying to win with what he has been given to him.  I'm not including Prov or TK in the conversation at this point simply because they are 19 yr old 1st year rookies. 

 

I do think we have a problem with Coots and where to play him.  Many on this board, including myself kept holding on to the thought that he would progress to a scoring 2C.  In reality that is not the case for a myriad of reasons that have been discussed ad nauseam on here.  As has been mentioned above, Coots is a very good 3C and is very good at the PK.  I agree though, that is not what the scouting reporting had him when he was drafted.  So what does Hakstol do???  I think by tinkering around with lines, I hope he is trying to evaluate what each player brings to the ice.  However, you can't do that when you keep juggling the lines around nor when the player is giving less than 100% on the ice on game night.

 

I am hoping once some dead weight is jettisoned and the expansion draft has come and gone, that a clearer vision begins to emerge.  We have to give H & H (Hakstol and Hey) some some time, but how much time is an unknown.  For some fans they want instant improved results and gratification and for the time being I don't thing that is going to happen anytime soon.

 

I do however expect 100% effort even when you are getting your collective asses handed to you.  By some accounts, and if true that Giroux was not back checking hard on that one Cap goal, that IMO, speaks volumes as far as his effort goes and how can you then put any stock in the fact that he is supposed to be the team "Captain".  When your team "Captain" is not giving his 100% in game what does that translate to the younger players.

 

I am by no mean advocating that Hexy go out and trade Giroux, however, as a Captain he needs to take a good hard look at himself in the mirror.  Now to be fair, I have no idea how he leads in the locker room since none of us are privy to that type of inside info.

 

One thing is very certain right now....this team is a mess..........

[icehole]

4 hours ago, radoran said:

 

It is absolutely relevant to the point mojo was making, which is that decrying the Flyers' scouting department for picking Couturier is misguided because everybody had him rated like that. His post was a direct response to caluso, who called out Pryor for his ability to judge talent.

 

Obviously Couturier has not panned out. But that doesn't mean that the Flyers were wrong for picking him when they did.

 

You (and icehole) reacted to mojo's response to another poster without taking into account what that other poster actually said and what mojo is actually saying in response.

 

 

That's the point mojo is saying is being ignored. Because you are still ignoring it.

 

He is not in any way referencing Couturier's junior career to justify what he is now or what he might be now, but rather what he was seen to be then when the Flyers' scouting department made a perfectly reasonable evaluation of the player.

 

Mojo also agrees with you - repeatedly - on the thread.

 

 

You are arguing a completely different point than the one mojo was making - and I can certainly see why mojo would be frustrated with that. And why you - doggedly responding to a point that wasn't even made - would be tired of hearing about it.

 

Carry on.

I think I was on board with what @mojo1917 was saying and I was using it to discredit the ability of scouts (everywhere) to judge talent.  Just because everyone else was so high on couturier, that doesn't mean that I  (if I was a scout) have to follow.  

 

I'm just a fan watching from the outside and I see nothing that I want on my hockey team.  Maybe the access these scouts have clouds their judgement.  I'm sure they get into practices and get to know a player off the ice.  I'm sure couturier is a hard worker at practice and he's a great guy.  I only get to see NHL game action and can't see anything that would make me pick him 8th to be my second line center.

[flyercanuck]

39 minutes ago, icehole said:

I think I was on board with what @mojo1917 was saying and I was using it to discredit the ability of scouts (everywhere) to judge talent.  Just because everyone else was so high on couturier, that doesn't mean that I  (if I was a scout) have to follow.  

 

I'm just a fan watching from the outside and I see nothing that I want on my hockey team.  Maybe the access these scouts have clouds their judgement.  I'm sure they get into practices and get to know a player off the ice.  I'm sure couturier is a hard worker at practice and he's a great guy.  I only get to see NHL game action and can't see anything that would make me pick him 8th to be my second line center.

 

Or maybe Couturier was used solely as a defensive forward for years and his offensive game never developed...in fact it regressed? 

 

When Philly took Laughton over Maatta, i was disappointed because we needed D and he fit the bill. After watching Laughton play the next season, I got why Philly picked him. The guy was a very good skater who was smart, defensively responsible, had a great shot and also qbed the pp. Maybe concussions have thrown a spanner into the works. Maybe he just wasn't meant to be...I don't know. And I'm no scout, but I know what I saw many times and I would have bet Scott Laughton would, at worse, be a very good 2nd line centre. It sure isn't looking that way presently. But there are no sure things when you're drafting 18 year olds.

 

Back to Couturier, he was picked 8th overall...not 1st. I've listed recent 8th overall picks several times on this board...Couturier is a lot closer to the top of that list than the bottom when it comes to how those picks panned out....Pascal LeClaire...Alexandre Picard...Peter Mueller...Zach Hamill...Scott Glennie...Alexandre Burmistrov...Derrick Pouliot...Nikita Alexeev...Taylor Pyatt...Mark Bell...Jonathan Aitkin...Terry Ryan...Jamie Storr...Brandon Convery.

 

Scouting and drafting isn't a science. It's pretty tough figuring out what any 17 or 18 year old kid is going to do in life, let alone as an NHLer.

 

 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

Thanks pilldoc... I'm just very confused about Hakstol's system right now.  Seems a bit all over the place.  Unlike Chief's which was non existant, Hak's changes from moment to moment, night to night.  That and the line shifting just perplexes me and it seems like it's perplexing the players a bit too.

 

But it could just be my impression from the outside looking in.  who knows!?

 

I think this is dead on.  The players have to get over it and find a way, but the random benchings, line changes, etc. have to leave them wondering both what is expected and what, exactly, they're being held accountable for.

 

I think the youth vs. old accountability is definitely uneven.   Others have said so, and I *think* you have (sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth.  I'm just too lazy to go back and look).   What I'm wondering is if Hakstol thinks the accountability is a good teaching method with the youth -- both Provy and TK seemed to respond, for example -- and that such tactics are wasted on the older players.   It's possible that with the probable exception of Giroux, Voracek, and Simmonds that you'll slowly see the older players moved out.   If that is the reason why older players can float while TK is benched for getting an assist and working his tail off, then maybe I'm okay with it.

 

I did say maybe.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

I am by no mean advocating that Hexy go out and trade Giroux, however, as a Captain he needs to take a good hard look at himself in the mirror.  Now to be fair, I have no idea how he leads in the locker room since none of us are privy to that type of inside info.

 

One thing is very certain right now....this team is a mess......

 

Giroux frustrates me.  But over 5 years or so, it's hard to argue with the results (I think there's probably something behind the curtain if you take a hard look at the numbers, but overall he's leading or among league leaders in points over 5 years).

 

He does have too many games in which he seems almost disinterested.

 

"This team is a mess."

 

Things clearly aren't going well, but I really do think a lot of it is the ebb and flow of an in-between team.   And I think several know they're gone at the deadline or their contract won't be renewed.   What I meant by "in-between" team is that the team is in the process of building and many know they're ultimately not part of what the Flyers are building towards.   They're stop-gap roster fillers.

 

But ultimately, you're just witnessing a team that has lost a bunch of games.   When they're on their 10-game win streak, some players play confident and some within themselves.  Some both.    Again, now with losses piling up, you have some players running to hide and are playing scared while others--Voracek--is trying to do way too much himself and attempting to do things that aren't necessarily his strength.   And so this balloons.   Two wins in a row and this is over.   But we're still a middle-pack team that will scratch and claw if it's going to get to the playoffs.   I don't think they make it, honestly, but they're right there as I type this.

 

I think this summer will again be draft-pick/prospect heavy.   Maybe we get another Gudas in a trade deadline deal (I don't mean defense, necessarily.  Just a valuable young player with potential to grow into a role).  We might sign a free agent or two, but they'll be bottom 9 players.  Probably middle six.   I think by next summer Hextall will know what kind of defensemen he has at the NHL level (I have to think both Sanheim and Morin are up next year) and will begin the process of not just shooting for the playoffs but shooting for contender.   I think we're probably still two more Junes (not including 2017) away from making some real noise.

I'll probably ride my bike into Lake Ontario by then, but...

[mojo1917]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

When Philly took Laughton over Maatta, i was disappointed because we needed D and he fit the bill. After watching Laughton play the next season, I got why Philly picked him. The guy was a very good skater who was smart, defensively responsible, had a great shot and also qbed the pp. Maybe concussions have thrown a spanner into the works. Maybe he just wasn't meant to be...I don't know. And I'm no scout, but I know what I saw many times and I would have bet Scott Laughton would, at worse, be a very good 2nd line centre. It sure isn't looking that way presently. But there are no sure things when you're drafting 18 year olds.

 

This 100%... It's tough to project what a guy will be like when he plays against men, is he done growing ? will he grow out of his speed? will his center of gravity change ? there's all kinds of questions that don't even have anything to do with hockey that can change.

I remember people really freaking out over the pick and Pods coming on the board telling us to cool it, he's seen him play and was trying to get him for his keeper fantasy league. 

And you're right on his first couple of goes at the NHL level Laughton looked really promising, he was fast, had a + shot and played a relentless checking style, I was on board that the pick was good. Then Maata got diagnosed with cancer or something..... Then came the Niskanen hit / fight and ass-whipping and he's not been the same guy since. 

so yeah hindsight never gets anything wrong.

[Jam1986]

8 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Without knowing what is going on inside Hakstol's head (it is a bit confusing out here to the rest of us Dave!!!), it's really impossible to say what this situation is.  

 

A few things:

In two more games, Hextall can waive MacDonald to the Phantoms and play whoever the hell he wants.  Hopefully soon he can trade at least two of Schultz, Streit and MDZ as well. 

 

Beyond that I think the big thing is that their system is broken.  Hakstol has tinkered and tampered too much.  They don't seem to play a consistent system and when they do he seems to change it on them mid-game.  

 

He seems to have them reacting and changing their game depending on who they're playing.  He seems to want them to be a high scoring team against high scoring teams and a low scoring team against low scoring teams.  

 

They seem to be switching their game plan between periods a lot.  And I think it's them switching, not the opposition cracking their system because the Flyers really seem to come out to 2nd and 3rd periods looking entirely different.

 

I honestly don't know what he's doing and I think Hextall has to have a few hard conversations with him.  I know Hextall isn't a coach and doesn't want to be.  He's not going to necessarily be able to tell Hakstol how to do his job.  But he needs to be able to tell him he's not currently getting it done and have Hak explain wtf he's doing and wtf he thinks is going on.  

 

This team is too all over the place.  

 

Frankly, looking at things the way they are, if I'm Hextall, I'm thinking seriously about a coaching change to address this team's inconsistency and I'm thinking seriously about Shattenkirk.  If not via a trade now, then on July 1.  

 

I can't condone spending 10 million on the guy unless it's only for 3 or 4 years.  He wants longer, he's going to have to take a lot less.  That's just the marketplace.  If someone else is willing to give it to him, Hextall will have to try to make a better argument for sanity in order to get to winning.

 

Right now the top 6 have the same problems:

 

1)  They're simply NOT PLAYING WITH THE SAME PARTNERS CONSISTENTLY ENOUGH.  

 

Hakstol blows up lines every night at this point.  He blows them up when they play poorly, he blows them up when the play well.  There's no rhyme or reason.  PLayers don't know each other well enough to play effectively in this way.  Coots gets knocked here for his lack of scoring, but what he is significantly good at is controlled entries.  HOWEVER, who does he pass to in order to maintain that control?  Simmonds usually comes from spot X and goes to spot Y at Z speed with Q men covering him.  However Jake comes from C, going to B at A rate of speed with T men covering him.  There's traffic where Coots can put the puck, and If he's playing with Schenn or Simmer he can drop it there and they'll battle through.  If he's playing with Raffl or TK, he'd better not.    

 

Solutions:  

-If I'm Hakstol, I'm putting Konecny, Coots and Jake together and Simmer, Giroux and Raffle together for the foreseeable future.  They have a good night.  Great, work to make it better.  They have a bad night, WORK TO FIX THE DAMN PROBLEM.  Don't just blow up the lines!  

-I'm sticking Schenn on the third line and keeping him as fresh as possible for the PP.  Schenn isn't a skill guy.  He's not a vision guy.  He's not a controlled entry guy and he's not the most responsible guy defensively when he thinks he's on a scoring line.  Stick him with Read and give them VERY specific duties to shut down.  Schenn will not score LESS if he's on the third line.  He only scores on the PP anyway, give him MORE PP minutes, fewer 5 on 5 minutes.

-Weise has to put up or shut up now.  He's straight up not playing well.  Is this like Jake last year where he needs time to digest the system?  I don't care.  Jake was a top scorer.  Weise is a defensive specialist who can chip in once in a while.  He should at least be one of those things.  He's neither.  

-Weise, Bellemare, Gordon, Lyubimov, and Vandevelde are NEVER to touch the ice when the team is losing with 12 minutes or less in the third period and NEVER, EVER EVER are they to touch the ice in Overtime.  PERIOD.  END OF DISCUSSION.  

 

-SETTLE THE SYSTEM.  Find an objective eye.  A friend, an analyst, someone who knows the game.  Figure out what your guys do well and then work on executing and ironing out.  STOP REINVENTING THE WHEEL EVERY NIGHT.  

 

2)  They can't count on their defensive pairings for any consistency at all.  

 

Now I know, I know you're all thinking, "but but but Provo..."  and he's great.  But he's one friggin 19 year old kid and 9 times out of 10 his partner is terrible.  

 

Mac is terrible (though better than most of you like to think).

Gudas is pretty decent actually, but he's been hurt for and playing through it for about a month.

MDZ is horribly inconsistent and often just horrible.

Streit is great on the PP but older than the hills and out of the play 85% of the time in his own end.

Ghost is terrible in front of his own net.  He's been trying hard, and he's been doing better recovering when he screws up, but he still screws up.  To boot, we're not getting much of the "Ghost Magic" that made him a Calder finalist last year.  I'm sure that's by design.  But frankly, we need the Ghost magic AND more consistent play in his own end.

Schultz isn't playing consistently enough, to get his game going, but probably can't play 18 minutes a night and besides he costs too much in bottles of ensure behind the bench.  

Manning is Manning.  Meh.  

 

However if you add Shattenkirk and don't have to play Mac anymore and then ship off Streit and MDZ, suddenly things get brighter and the pairings can make more sense responsibility wise.  

 

No matter what happens with Shattenkirk, this team IS SIMPLY NOT GOING TO GET BETTER UNTIL THE TOP 6 CAN COUNT ON THE DEFENSE TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE AND RESPONSIBLE.  

 

3) Jake and G have the skills.  They have the ability to take control of the play and the game... they seem unable to do it with any consistency.  

 

When you look at those kinds of leaders who take over games and dominate, they're at it for long long stretches of just taking it to the opposition and giving them fits.  They might score a big goal when it's needed, but they didn't come out of nowhere.  They've been at it and at it driving the play and making things happen at both ends for every second of every shift and eventually it pays off.    

 

Crosby tends to be a little sneaky, erupting when he's needed, but for the most part the real elite leaders of teams in this league are just difficult to play against CONSTANTLY.  There isn't a single member of this team I would put in that category.  Provo is even still a "Someday" guy, though he's incredibly good now and easily the team's top D Man.  But on offense, there is simply no one.  Jake is the closest.   Even Giroux seems to have shifts where he looks like, "Well I played hard last shift... something good will happen next shift. Let's see what materializes".  

 

Is that on the players or is that on the system?  

Do they lack desire?  Do they lack know how? or do they lack conditioning to put forth that effort?  

 

I really can't say, but it's been this way since 2012 IMHO.  

 

 

[FD19372]

8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

JVR to Philly for the Other Schenn........

 

 

Schenn for Brayden Coburn.

[Jam1986]

Like to trade G and or Jake if they agree. Like Draisatil but the team that have young guys that we want back are OTT,MTL,MINN,St LOUIS,SJ ,FLA. We need a vet or two to help on D and vets for on ice and in room. Like your reply KING!

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, Jam1986 said:

Like to trade G and or Jake if they agree. Like Draisatil but the team that have young guys that we want back are OTT,MTL,MINN,St LOUIS,SJ ,FLA. We need a vet or two to help on D and vets for on ice and in room. Like your reply KING!

 

I'm sorry.  What now? 

[Bertmega]

I wonder if they can sign any of those old timers from the Alumni Game? 

 

The legion line looked light years ahead of the junk out there now.