B. Schenn traded to Blues for J. Lehtera and a Conditional 1st in 2018

[RJ8812]

I wouldn't get into a bidding war over Weal

[vis]

12 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

I wouldn't get into a bidding war over Weal

Agree.  And I like Weal.  Thought he should have made the team out of camp last year.  I hope he gets whatever $$$ he can.  Just make sure we're not the ones overpaying him.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, RJ8812 said:

I wouldn't get into a bidding war over Weal

 

 

I don't think they will i think Ron has set his price and now Weal is seeing if he can do better. I would expect nothing less.

 

Guess we'll see.

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I don't think they will i think Ron has set his price and now Weal is seeing if he can do better. I would expect nothing less.

 

Guess we'll see.

 

Accounts say that they've agreed on a length of term but not on dollars yet.

 

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/06/18/pending-ufa-weal-likes-philly-but-will-listen-to-other-opportunities-also-says-agent/
 

He could certainly have talked money with Vegas but I didn't think other teams could negotiate with him/his agent until July 1?

 

Quote

Barry didn’t deny Sunday that he would like to better gauge Weal’s market value by waiting until July 1 but said his client is very happy as a Flyer and would prefer re-signing here.

“He likes Philly still and hopefully, we will still get a contract done before July 1,” Barry said.

 

[aziz]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Wow Aziz is back for like a day and a half and look what we've become.

 

oh, come on, you missed it.

[OccamsRazor]

25 minutes ago, radoran said:

He could certainly have talked money with Vegas but I didn't think other teams could negotiate with him/his agent until July 1?

 

 

Not sure. I think if he gets permission from the Flyers maybe he can but can't be certain.

 

 

 

So not sure why he would be touring if he couldn't talk contract stuff. But who knows.

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, aziz said:

 

oh, come on, you missed it.

 

Of course I did, Glad to see you man!

 

Just couldn't resist a little sarcasm at all of our expenses

[aziz]

1 hour ago, RJ8812 said:

I wouldn't get into a bidding war over Weal

 

yeah, so, that's next in my re-education:  isn't weal basically matt read all over again?  ~47 point pace in a very late rookie season, aged 25/26?

[canoli]

Yeah I want to complain a little more.

 

I appreciate 2 1R picks. That sounds like a steal for BSchenn until you add Lehtera's near-equivalent in cap hit / salary. That makes no sense. I am ALL for opening up the roster for guys with better hockey IQ / more commitment to winning a shift than BSchenn. But not one of the signed prospects fit the bill? Hextall couldn't find a better partner to take BSchenn and actually open up some cap room? Maybe this summer isn't exactly promising for LWers but still.

 

Hextall said he wasn't actively shopping BSchenn. Apparently he wanted Frost bad enough to downgrade the current roster in hopes that Mr. Oh-God-I-Wish-It-Was-Any-Other-Team Frost will be an impact player. (seriously did you see this kid's face when Hextall announced his name? He looked like he was about to have root canal) Well I hope he's right.

 

Okay I'm done. F^*# it. If the Flyers are 5 years away that gives Hakstol time to mature into his position. And maybe by then Lappy figures out how to impose his passion for killing penalties onto the Flyers' killers.

[Podein25]

34 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

yeah, so, that's next in my re-education:  isn't weal basically matt read all over again?  ~47 point pace in a very late rookie season, aged 25/26?

 

Weal put up 100 points in the WHL as a 17 year old and was a 3rd round pick. The most points Read ever put up was 68 - as a 19 year old playing Tier II 

 

The only reason Weal was a 3rd round pick and not a 1st was size.

[radoran]

31 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

yeah, so, that's next in my re-education:  isn't weal basically matt read all over again?  ~47 point pace in a very late rookie season, aged 25/26?

 

At 25 Weal has a bit more pedigree than Read - and at the professional level. He was the Calder Cup MVP for Manchester in 14-15 and had 47 points in 43 games for the Phantoms last season. His path to the NHL has been a little longer primarily because neither the Kings nor the Flyers had real space for him.

 

Read was 25 coming out of Bemidji State - not a bad program, but certainly not the AHL.

 

That said, I'll take Weal at something less than Read's $3.625M and if he can give us a couple 20-goal seasons, terrific

 

14 minutes ago, canoli said:

Yeah I want to complain a little more.

 

I appreciate 2 1R picks. That sounds like a steal for BSchenn until you add Lehtera's near-equivalent in cap hit / salary. That makes no sense. I am ALL for opening up the roster for guys with better hockey IQ / more commitment to winning a shift than BSchenn. But not one of the signed prospects fit the bill? Hextall couldn't find a better partner to take BSchenn and actually open up some cap room? Maybe this summer isn't exactly promising for LWers but still.

 

Hextall said he wasn't actively shopping BSchenn. Apparently he wanted Frost bad enough to downgrade the current roster in hopes that Mr. Oh-God-I-Wish-It-Was-Any-Other-Team Frost will be an impact player. (seriously did you see this kid's face when Hextall announced his name? He looked like he was about to have root canal) Well I hope he's right.

 

Okay I'm done. F^*# it. If the Flyers are 5 years away that gives Hakstol time to mature into his position. And maybe by then Lappy figures out how to impose his passion for killing penalties onto the Flyers' killers.

 

The main thing is that they don't need the cap room. vis points out in Another Thread that they're likely to be roughly $3-4M under the cap when the season starts. And when they do get "cap relief" from the deal it just happens to be the same year that Simmonds, Konecny and Provorov are up for renewal.

 

From where I sit, it's not Lehtera or Frost that made Schenn expendable, it's Patrick.

[Podein25]

5 minutes ago, radoran said:

At 25 Weal has a bit more pedigree than Read - and at the professional level

Well yeah, to be specific he has skill. The only skill Read ever had was skating. He's not an elite stickhandler, playmaker or goal scorer. Weal can actually do things with the puck

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Weal put up 100 points in the WHL as a 17 year old and was a 3rd round pick.

 

 

He also won Calder Cup MVP when they won the title in the AHL too....

 

Edit: I posted this before reading through so Rad already mentioned this...oh well...

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Weal can actually do things with the puck

 

 

Yeah scoring in the shootout is in high demand on this team...

 

 

[King Knut]

24 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

At 25 Weal has a bit more pedigree than Read - and at the professional level. He was the Calder Cup MVP for Manchester in 14-15 and had 47 points in 43 games for the Phantoms last season. His path to the NHL has been a little longer primarily because neither the Kings nor the Flyers had real space for him.

 

Read was 25 coming out of Bemidji State - not a bad program, but certainly not the AHL.

 

That said, I'll take Weal at something less than Read's $3.625M and if he can give us a couple 20-goal seasons, terrific

 

 

The main thing is that they don't need the cap room. vis points out in Another Thread that they're likely to be roughly $3-4M under the cap when the season starts. And when they do get "cap relief" from the deal it just happens to be the same year that Simmonds, Konecny and Provorov are up for renewal.

 

From where I sit, it's not Lehtera or Frost that made Schenn expendable, it's Patrick.

 

I totally agree with what you're saying and add in that I really think keeping Weal makes a difference too.

Hextall REALLY seemed to think Lindblom looked ready based on some comments I read at the end of the season.

 

Basically as things are, even without Schenn, the Flyers are going to have their pick of responsible d first vets to ride the pine at the beginning of the year.  If they can resign Weal, they can send one to the minors or trade all three. 

 

I REALLY want Weal back.  I think he's going to be a big help and will give this team 3 lines that are extremely difficult to defend against instead of 1 and a 4th line that can be a pain in the neck both ways finally.  

 

[AJgoal]

9 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Honestly, i absolutely hated that season. Hated it. They were a lifeless lot of nothing from January on. They get in on a shootout. Made it to the Bruins because other teams did the heavy lifting. And while congrats on coming back, that doesn't happen without injury to the Bruins. 

They had no business winning that cup. (that does NOT mean I would have boycotted a parade! Hockey fan and hypocrite don't have to be mutually exclusive). I said these things then and got crucified for it, so this isn't just spoiled grapes after the fact. 

 

The thing about that 2010 team is that it was a team BUILT for the playoffs. A really solid top 4. Excellent center depth. A fourth line that could get after opponents and not let them score. Grit and skill on the wings.

 

Yeah, if the Habs get knocked out in the first round, they would have faced Washington in round two. But since when is Washington a scary playoff team? Facing Pittsburgh in the ECF would have been different than the Habs, but the Pens weren't in a class of their own.

 

And it's convenient to note that the Bruins suffered injuries while ignoring the fact that the Flyers were icing an AHL goalie because their starter's hip fell off during the season and their backup got injured in Game 5. Not to mention that Gagne (4th most goals on the team), Carter (most goals), and Laperriere were all injured in the first round and only Gagne returned at any point in the Boston Series (Game 4).

 

The narrative that surrounds that team - that they were lucky to get into the playoffs, that they overachieved and had no business in the final, etc. is only partly true. Yes, they were lucky to get into the playoffs - because they underachieved that year, not because they were a bad team. They'd dropped 11 points from their total the season before, and then went back up 18 points the next season, with very few changes except in net. And a large part of their drop off could be directly attributed to a spate of injuries, including Emery, and the subsequent reliance on Leighton and Boucher. I really don't think they were a team that as constructed could have been considered "unworthy" of the Cup. They certainly played like they belonged there.

[Podein25]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Yeah scoring in the shootout is in high demand on this team...

 

 

 

Agreed. When I saw the Flyers in Winnipeg I was there early to catch the warm up and Weal can really handle the puck. Admittedly, it's just warm up, but you can tell he's spent a lot of time with the puck. He clearly realized at a very young age that this was his way to counter his size. He put up 70 points in the Dub as a 16 year old. There simply are not that many guys who can do that.

[csummers]

18 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

C'mon Brayden damnit shouldn't you be on a plane to St. Louie you don't have time to be hanging out posting messages on a hockey board you need to be working out getting ready to carry the #1 center spot for the Blues!!!

 

Now off you go!!

 

 Oh sorry about posting about someone involved in a trade in a thread about that trade. 

  let me know when Frost scores 25 goals two years in row barely past his 25th birthday. And if he does, better trade him for a guy who scores 17 total points and costs about the same.

 Your love affair with hextall is kinda creepy.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, csummers said:

let me know when Frost scores 25 goals two years in row barely past his 25th birthday

 

 

Ok deal...i'll get back in 8 years on that....the only part is you can't post again till then!

 

Deal?

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, csummers said:

 

 Oh sorry about posting about someone involved in a trade in a thread about that trade. 

  let me know when Frost scores 25 goals two years in row barely past his 25th birthday. And if he does, better trade him for a guy who scores 17 total points and costs about the same.

 Your love affair with hextall is kinda creepy.

 

It's worth noting that Lehtera only scored 7 goals and 12 assists at Even Strength for a -6.

Schenn on the other hand scored a whopping 8 goals and 19 assists at even strength for a -12.

 

Schenn wasn't without his problems.  But the main thing to keep in mind is that this trade wasn't about Lehtera.  Hextall only took him (and said so in the presser) because St. Louis needed cap relief in the deal.

 

This was about the picks and the fact that Schenn's place in the lineup wasn't ever secure.

 

His 17 Power play goals are huge.  They'll be missed.  The calculation is that someone else will score those 17 goals (25 total) on the PP or at Even Strength.  The calculation is that the PP goals came because of the work of Giroux, Ghost and Voracek moving the puck and Simmonds making room, not necessarily from Schenn being an amazing PP player.  

 

I'm not so delusional myself that I can't see that it's a calculation.  But they needed room at FWD to get some of these guys playing.  They needed to trade someone and St. Louis offered 2 first rounders (a bit unheard of) for Schenn who while very very useful, was never the most inspiring or next level performer on this team and at Even strength was one of the worst (PEB and VDV were actually the worst, but they're gone too).  

 

It's not a bad move.  It was Schenn.  We all wanted great things from him, but I just don't think they were going to happen in this lineup.  Maybe he can do well in St. Louis.  maybe they'll have a C spot for him.  That'd be nice.  

 

 

 

[FD19372]

21 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

It's worth noting that Lehtera only scored 7 goals and 12 assists at Even Strength for a -6.

Schenn on the other hand scored a whopping 8 goals and 19 assists at even strength for a -12.

 

Schenn wasn't without his problems.  But the main thing to keep in mind is that this trade wasn't about Lehtera.  Hextall only took him (and said so in the presser) because St. Louis needed cap relief in the deal.

 

This was about the picks and the fact that Schenn's place in the lineup wasn't ever secure.

 

His 17 Power play goals are huge.  They'll be missed.  The calculation is that someone else will score those 17 goals (25 total) on the PP or at Even Strength.  The calculation is that the PP goals came because of the work of Giroux, Ghost and Voracek moving the puck and Simmonds making room, not necessarily from Schenn being an amazing PP player.  

 

I'm not so delusional myself that I can't see that it's a calculation.  But they needed room at FWD to get some of these guys playing.  They needed to trade someone and St. Louis offered 2 first rounders (a bit unheard of) for Schenn who while very very useful, was never the most inspiring or next level performer on this team and at Even strength was one of the worst (PEB and VDV were actually the worst, but they're gone too).  

 

It's not a bad move.  It was Schenn.  We all wanted great things from him, but I just don't think they were going to happen in this lineup.  Maybe he can do well in St. Louis.  maybe they'll have a C spot for him.  That'd be nice.  

 

 

 

If Lehtera is flipped for a needed asset before training camp or early in the season, I'm fine with the trade, but it makes almost no sense whatsoever....just for a little cap relief.

[brelic]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Not sure. I think if he gets permission from the Flyers maybe he can but can't be certain.

 

 

 

So not sure why he would be touring if he couldn't talk contract stuff. But who knows.

 

I thought I read somewhere that teams are allowed to talk to pending UFAs as of June 27th. 

 

 

[ruxpin]

43 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

The thing about that 2010 team is that it was a team BUILT for the playoffs. A really solid top 4. Excellent center depth. A fourth line that could get after opponents and not let them score. Grit and skill on the wings.

 

Yeah, if the Habs get knocked out in the first round, they would have faced Washington in round two. But since when is Washington a scary playoff team? Facing Pittsburgh in the ECF would have been different than the Habs, but the Pens weren't in a class of their own.

 

And it's convenient to note that the Bruins suffered injuries while ignoring the fact that the Flyers were icing an AHL goalie because their starter's hip fell off during the season and their backup got injured in Game 5. Not to mention that Gagne (4th most goals on the team), Carter (most goals), and Laperriere were all injured in the first round and only Gagne returned at any point in the Boston Series (Game 4).

 

The narrative that surrounds that team - that they were lucky to get into the playoffs, that they overachieved and had no business in the final, etc. is only partly true. Yes, they were lucky to get into the playoffs - because they underachieved that year, not because they were a bad team. They'd dropped 11 points from their total the season before, and then went back up 18 points the next season, with very few changes except in net. And a large part of their drop off could be directly attributed to a spate of injuries, including Emery, and the subsequent reliance on Leighton and Boucher. I really don't think they were a team that as constructed could have been considered "unworthy" of the Cup. They certainly played like they belonged there.

 

I think that's a fair and accurate assessment. I oversold the glass half empty side, but largely to explain why,  contemporaneously, I didn't personally enjoy it. 

 

The last game of the regular season through the playoffs were both exasperating and exhilarating.  And certainly, you play whatever team is in front of you. As for the Boston series, they had no answer for Krejci until he got hurt. But at the end of the day, when you're down 0-3 and all they have to do is win one of four and you pull it off, that's stuff of legend. And even without Krejci, Boston was up 3-0 in game 7. Nothing changed other than the Flyers gut checked and took over. 

 

And they certainly played like they belonged in the finals. 

 

If someone wants to remember all of that fondly, I won't criticize them at all for it.  It really was exhilarating in the moment. My post to aziz wasn't an attempt to criticize or dissuade him. Just explaining why I didn't personally enjoy that season. 

 

"Built for the playoffs" is probably a great way to describe that team and maybe contributed to why my experience during the regular season was a painful one.  We were all still over at silly.com, but there was a lot of bridge jumping the second half of that. We had a core and a captain that acted like "let's go skating for 3 hours. If we win, great. If not, who cares?"  That was frustrating as hell for me at the time.  Underachieving is right. That team had no business being in a position of needing a shootout to get in. 

 

But maybe "built for the playoffs" puts a really good perspective on that, for both better and worse. 

 

I actually remember the team that lost to Tampa in the semis a lot more fondly. (was that 2004?)  That team is certainly not a good example of building through the draft, but that was also pre-cap. 

 

Anyway, great post. 

[OccamsRazor]

26 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I thought I read somewhere that teams are allowed to talk to pending UFAs as of June 27th. 

 

 

 

Could be can't say for sure.

 

I guess we'll know in a week....

[AJgoal]

24 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

 

I actually remember the team that lost to Tampa in the semis a lot more fondly. (was that 2004?)  That team is certainly not a good example of building through the draft, but that was also pre-cap. 

 

Anyway, great post. 

 

Yup, I remember that 2004 team. I had been following them via newspaper for most of that season because I was deployed. I flew back to the States during the semifinals, and picked up a ticket to game 3 for the night I got to fly home on leave. "Hi Mom, hi Dad. I need to borrow the car." So that run wasn't as exciting for me as I only got to watch about 9 games of the season total, though I know a lot of people really loved that team.