Jets trade Kevin Hayes to Flyers

[vis]

On 6/6/2019 at 8:32 AM, radoran said:

I just don't get that feeling as to how this organization works. And, to be fair, it may not be how the NHL works.

Yeah, not sure I can blame the Flyers.  Teams that feel that they are, or should be, ready to meaningfully compete identify their needs and fill them with whoever is available at whatever price they can.  That’s just how things work.  May not be the smartest approach every time.  I mean, the Leafs went out and got the best C last offseason and how did that work out this year?  And they may lose Marner as a result.  

[vis]

On 6/6/2019 at 10:02 AM, Podein25 said:

If I'm Fletch and I'm negotiating with Hayes over the next month I basically have one question, asked every day: where is Kevin right now and what is he doing? If the answer is not that he's pushing tractor tires up a hill with Gary Roberts, then I'm walking away from anything resembling 7 years at $6-7M.  

That’s just not realistic to expect a guy to be training that hard at this point.  Nobody in the league is.  I’m not knocking Hayes if he’s enjoying himself somewhere ready to cash in the biggest contract of his life.  99% of players would be doing just that.

[vis]

On 6/6/2019 at 10:07 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

I don't see why not it is the bar Brock Nelson who is a 27 year old forward just sign for after a 53 point season

 

Hayes just had a 55 points season.

 

I would maybe go 6.5 mill but that's it.

Because the Flyers are desperate and now even moreso having traded a pick.  Hayes has all the leverage.  I suppose he has to be careful to not to overplay his hand, but the Flyers are basically outbidding themselves here.  Yeah, the pick isn’t much but it would look terrible for the Flyers and Fletcher if he can’t lock down their top target for their top need when they could do so without any interference from other teams.  Fletcher knows it will be a major fail in his first season as GM if he can’t get this done.  And you know what?  I won’t blame him if he can’t get it done.  Blame stupid Comcast for basically telling the entire hockey world how desperate they are to win now.  Hope I’m wrong, but that 7th year is looming large.

Edited June 9, 2019 by vis

[OccamsRazor]

34 minutes ago, vis said:

Flyers are basically outbidding themselves here

 

Isn't that their motto??

 

35 minutes ago, vis said:

 Yeah, the pick isn’t much but it would look terrible for the Flyers and Fletcher if he can’t lock down their top target for their top need when they could do so without any interference from other teams.

 

Yes and then he would be force to plan B....and that is what scares me...the unknown.

 

Honestly if it is a 2nd line center they want the there won't be one on the market. Duchene will be fought over by Columbus, Nashville and Montreal.

 

Then you're left with 39 year old Joe Thornton and Colin Wilson (whom is better suited as a 3rd line center) and a huge group of 3rd type centers at best.

 

So that would leave Chuck left with nothing but a trade to fill the 2nd line center hole.

 

 

[Podein25]

53 minutes ago, vis said:

That’s just not realistic to expect a guy to be training that hard at this point.  Nobody in the league is.  I’m not knocking Hayes if he’s enjoying himself somewhere ready to cash in the biggest contract of his life.  99% of players would be doing just that.

 

Ok fair enough I guess. But Hayes was out of shape when he was traded to the Jets. And has a bit of a history with it, so if I'm Flecth I'm asking the tough questions...

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

 

Ok fair enough I guess. But Hayes was out of shape when he was traded to the Jets. And has a bit of a history with it, so if I'm Flecth I'm asking the tough questions...

 

I'm hesitant to believe that a hockey player was out of shape 3/4 of the way through a season before he was dealt. I remember when John Stevens said that about the guys after taking over from Hitchcock and same with Laviolette taking over for Stevens, Berube taking over for Laviolette, Hakstol taking over for Berube, etc......It's tired excuse when coaches say that. These guys are professional athletes and multi-millionaires to boot. They aren't going to do anything to jeopardize that. 

 

What I think about Hayes is that he's a big guy, but he's light. 6'5, 215 pounds? He's simply not heavy enough, which to me indicates he's not eating enough. A guy that big who plays a physical game needs to have more muscle on his frame. Not only that, having that extra muscle will help him on first step acceleration, especially if he's adding more muscle mass to his legs. He'll get a better push off and with the length of his stride, that's huge. 

 

 

[CoachX]

12 hours ago, vis said:

Because the Flyers are desperate and now even moreso having traded a pick.  Hayes has all the leverage.  I suppose he has to be careful to not to overplay his hand, but the Flyers are basically outbidding themselves here.  Yeah, the pick isn’t much but it would look terrible for the Flyers and Fletcher if he can’t lock down their top target for their top need when they could do so without any interference from other teams.  Fletcher knows it will be a major fail in his first season as GM if he can’t get this done.  And you know what?  I won’t blame him if he can’t get it done.  Blame stupid Comcast for basically telling the entire hockey world how desperate they are to win now.  Hope I’m wrong, but that 7th year is looming large.

I dont see it as "looking bad" or a "major fail". This is business. The team defined the player they want and dealt a meaningless pick to secure a chance to sign him. Its common knowledge that he could sign elsewhere. And if he does, it isnt a referendum on the GM or team. Im quite certain they already have plan B, and C in place. Thats why Fletch is there and we are enjoying our time posting in a forum.

 

I also think they had a real strong feel in whether they could sign the guy, otherwise they wouldnt have done it

[mojo1917]

@CoachX

 

You're making a lot of sense in this thread and others as well.  Great to see you posting again.

even though I know you've been posting for a while.

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

I also think they had a real strong feel in whether they could sign the guy, otherwise they wouldnt have done it

 

As long as this so called plan wasn't to give him some outrageous bloated contract with NMC with it, and then they are stuck with him for 6-7 years while there is nowhere for the kids behind him to go or otherwise demoting him to 4th line center in two to three years and taking home 6 mill per season playing the role....i have seen that movie and it sucks and i would not like to see it again.

 

So yes if that isn't their plan then i can get on board.

[CoachX]

42 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@CoachX

 

You're making a lot of sense in this thread and others as well.  Great to see you posting again.

even though I know you've been posting for a while.

 

Thanks. Nice to be back

[CoachX]

24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

As long as this so called plan wasn't to give him some outrageous bloated contract with NMC with it, and then they are stuck with him for 6-7 years while there is nowhere for the kids behind him to go or otherwise demoting him to 4th line center in two to three years and taking home 6 mill per season playing the role....i have seen that movie and it sucks and i would not like to see it again.

 

So yes if that isn't their plan then i can get on board.

I dont think this current front office will go down the same rabbit hole as others. I get that we (fans) have been conditioned to expect stupidity. I see (hope) things going differently 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I dont think this current front office will go down the same rabbit hole as others. I get that we (fans) have been conditioned to expect stupidity. I see (hope) things going differently 

 

I hope you're right. It is time to get on track and take advantage of some of the best player and prospect depth i have ever seen since i have been following the Flyers....i just want a Cup before i leave this earth.

[tucson83]

if hayes doesnt work out, i would like the flyers to go after kadri and instead of getting trouba, i would try to go after marner, nylander or kap if they are available because they played with jvr in toronto, they would be good chemistry and just go after two defenseman in fa

like stralman and girardi in fa, since they played together in tampa and av connection plus they might cost less.

[ruxpin]

30 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

like stralman and girardi in fa, since they played together in tampa and av connection plus they might cost less

 

I'm good with the names (especially Stralman, but maybe only because I hadn't previously considered Girardi), but I don't want both.  I don't think we need two defensemen.  I just just want one to stabilize things and put some kids into roles they're better-able to manage.

 

Just for argument sake, if you got two, who are you sitting/trading/sending down?

 

Provorov

Sanheim

Gudas

Ghost

Hagg

Myers

Morin

McDud

 

Personally, McDud is going to Lehigh to be Reddened. 

That still leaves one of Morin, Ghost, or Hagg as your 7th.  And maybe send Myers down assuming he's still waiver-exempt.

 

So, I guess it's "doable," but you still have one too many defensemen with just Stralman.  You also bring in Girardi and it's a crowd.

Edited June 9, 2019 by ruxpin

[OccamsRazor]

19 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I'm good with the names (especially Stralman, but maybe only because I hadn't previously considered Girardi), but I don't want both.  I don't think we need two defensemen.  I just just want one to stabilize things and put some kids into roles they're better-able to manage.

 

Just for argument sake, if you got two, who are you sitting/trading/sending down?

 

Provorov

Sanheim

Gudas

Ghost

Hagg

Myers

Morin

McDud

 

Personally, McDud is going to Lehigh to be Reddened. 

That still leaves one of Morin, Ghost, or Hagg as your 7th.  And maybe send Myers down assuming he's still waiver-exempt.

 

So, I guess it's "doable," but you still have one too many defensemen with just Stralman.  You also bring in Girardi and it's a crowd.

 

No need for two more right hand shots. I would take one of the two but not both.

 

I would hope AV would know best of which one to take. I am leaning towards Stralman just from  a speed skating standpoint.

 

Plus Stralman is 3 years younger. But Girardi bring more size and grit. But i guess either could fill a vet role.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by OccamsRazor
typo

[OccamsRazor]

 

So i am guessing we may know something by middle of next week. Maybe.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by OccamsRazor

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No need for two more right hand shots. I would take one of the two but not both.

 

I would hope AV would know best of which one to take. I am leaning towards Stralman just from  a speed skating standpoint.

 

Plus Stralman is 3 years younger. But Girardi bring more size and grit. But i guess either could fill a vet role.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, my preference is Stralman, but Girardi isn't a horrible consolation prize so long as we don't go stupid on term.

 

I'm with you; I have no desire for both.  I think that's overkill.

[OccamsRazor]

I would prefer a JVR like contract for Hayes i wonder if he would be down with that??

 

 

 

LENGTH: 5 YEARS

EXPIRY STATUS: UFA

SIGNING TEAM: Philadelphia Flyers

VALUE: $35,000,000

C.H.% : 8.81

SIGNING DATE: July 1, 2018

SOURCE: @frank_seravalli

SEASON	CLAUSE	CAP HIT	AAV	P. BONUSES	S. BONUSES	BASE SALARY	TOTAL SALARY	MINORS SALARY
2018-19		$7,000,000	$7,000,000	$0	$1,000,000	$7,000,000	$8,000,000	$8,000,000
2019-20		$7,000,000	$7,000,000	$0	$1,000,000	$7,000,000	$8,000,000	$8,000,000
2020-21		$7,000,000	$7,000,000	$0	$1,000,000	$6,000,000	$7,000,000	$7,000,000
2021-22		$7,000,000	$7,000,000	$0	$1,000,000	$6,000,000	$7,000,000	$7,000,000
2022-23		$7,000,000	$7,000,000	$0	$1,000,000	$4,000,000	$5,000,000	$5,000,000
TOTAL		$35,000,000	$35,000,000	$0	$5,000,000	$30,000,000	$35,000,000	$35,000,000

 

What do other think about this??? Would this be good??

[RonJeremy]

24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No need for two more right hand shots. I would take one of the two but not both.

 

I would hope AV would know best of which one to take. I am leaning towards Stralman just from  a speed skating standpoint.

 

Plus Stralman is 3 years younger. But Girardi bring more size and grit. But i guess either could fill a vet role.

 

 

 

 

Girardi seemed pretty much on his last legs with the Rangers a few years ago. Is he even capable of playing on the first or second pair?

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, RonJeremy said:

Girardi seemed pretty much on his last legs with the Rangers a few years ago. Is he even capable of playing on the first or second pair?

 

I'm not sure he is up for the task hanging with Ivan but i could see him on the 2nd pair with Sanheim.

 

Stralman i think could handle the 20-22 minutes a night on the top pair, h has his mobility he just needs someone to have faith in him

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I'm not sure he is up for the task hanging with Ivan but i could see him on the 2nd pair with Sanheim.

 

Stralman i think could handle the 20-22 minutes a night on the top pair, h has his mobility he just needs someone to have faith in him

Ron has a good point. Do you think Girardi still has second pair minutes in him?  Or is he a bottom pair or 7th dman at this point?

 

I really want top 4 at this point. As if it's easy, I'd really want a top pair RHD so he could slot next to Ivan and Sanheim could switch back to his natural side on the second. 

 

[AJgoal]

18 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Yeah, my preference is Stralman, but Girardi isn't a horrible consolation prize so long as we don't go stupid on term.

 

I'm with you; I have no desire for both.  I think that's overkill.

 

Girardi is cooked. The only reason he looked half decent this year is because Hedman was his partner - but he dragged Hedman's performance way down. Here's a quote from a post-season write up on him from Tampa's perspective:

 

"Long story short, Girardi was an NHL player this season, but not a very good one."

 

Not sure we need more of that on the blue line.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

Girardi is cooked. The only reason he looked half decent this year is because Hedman was his partner - but he dragged Hedman's performance way down. Here's a quote from a post-season write up on him from Tampa's perspective:

 

"Long story short, Girardi was an NHL player this season, but not a very good one."

 

Not sure we need more of that on the blue line.

 

Well then that answer my question then.

 

Hell no ain't got time for that.

[ruxpin]

8 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

Girardi is cooked. The only reason he looked half decent this year is because Hedman was his partner - but he dragged Hedman's performance way down. Here's a quote from a post-season write up on him from Tampa's perspective:

 

"Long story short, Girardi was an NHL player this season, but not a very good one."

 

Not sure we need more of that on the blue line.

 

Yeah, that's kind of what I was envisioning.  I would be interested in Strahlman.  Girardi could be the "veteran voice" if all else fails, but at this point I'm not sure he's an upgrade from McDud.

[vis]

On 6/8/2019 at 9:12 PM, OccamsRazor said:

So that would leave Chuck left with nothing but a trade to fill the 2nd line center hole.

Yeah, that's what worries me a lot.  If they whiff in UFA, I have a strong feeling they are going to be taken to the cleaners if they go the trade route.