Game 32: Devils at Flyers; 3/23/21 @ 7, NBCSP

[radoran]

5 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

 

sometimes you wonder if it is just for a paycheck and nothing else?, after we paid these same guys that played well last year, they started falling off a cliff. heck after we overpaid for giroux and jake they started their disappearing acts after that.

 

The organization (a term I use loosely) had tended to pay players based upon the players that they want them to be rather than the players they are.

 

The Voracek extension - bidding against themselves - is a classic example.

 

The only guy that they got at a "bargain" was Couturier, and they're going to have to pony up LARGE when they sign him at 30 to wear the C.

Edited March 24, 2021 by radoran

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

It isn't going to work. He's too slow, and if that's their answer for inserting a physical winger into the lineup, that's a 'no' from me.

 

Well, he's already back as a D on the Phantom's roster so we can safely say it didn't work.

 

[FD19372]

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Well, he's already back as a D on the Phantom's roster so we can safely say it didn't work.

 

No Flyer fans are safe from the soon to be continued...Morin Experiment. None.

[CoachX]

10 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

 

sometimes you wonder if it is just for a paycheck and nothing else?, after we paid these same guys that played well last year, they started falling off a cliff. heck after we overpaid for giroux and jake they started their disappearing acts after that.

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner

 

[FD19372]

8 minutes ago, CoachX said:

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner

 

If they can trade either G or Jake at the deadline, I'll be remotely interested in that. I'll hold my breath.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

your garden and flowers will give you more enjoyment than watching this team ..

 

The natural fertilizer will give you more enjoyment.

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

The natural fertilizer will give you more enjoyment.

There's a good chance that garden fertilizer would contain less manure, than this team. 

[pilldoc]

1 minute ago, FD19372 said:

There's a good chance that garden fertilizer would contain less manure, than this team. 

The more manure... more methane gas produced. And everyone knows all it takes is a spark and then kaboom!

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

It's about drive and it's about leadership.

 

And let's not forget the most important part. It's about brining it every night. Every game.

 

And like them or not (and i hate them both) they bring it every night. Almost every shift.

 

Flyers players don't do that. And that is the problem.

 

It is just like at work when i get new guys i have to train.

 

I tell them when i met the first time is that i can show you how to do your job so good you won't need to look up the procedures on their computers before performing their daily tasks.

 

It will become like muscle memory.

 

The one thing i can not provide for you when you show up for the job every day is motivation.

 

You have to provide that part. And bring it every day and you can make this your career.

 

The choice is yours.

[Podein25]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

And let's not forget the most important part. It's about brining it every night. 

 

 

I always brine my turkey overnight before roasting. Speaking of turkeys...

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

So those trades produced the core that everyone hates now...

 

And that is all due to one thing. The results. The is a results based business. And those results are wins.

 

Most importantly playoff runs, stretches....attempts at hoisting Lord Stanley.

 

And well let's just saying since 2010 those results have been very underwhelming to say the least.

 

So a change is needed in the personnel we are asking to perform said task i think it needs to happen.

[OccamsRazor]

48 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

No Flyer fans are safe from the soon to be continued...Morin Experiment. None.

 

They should have let him lose on the Flyer's blueline i would rather watch him blow guys up whith thundering body checks along the boards that dressing any of Hagg, Ghost, Braun or Gus.

 

And then well who knows maybe he eventually settles in....but not playing him and giving him a chance with better players we'll never know.

 

I'm not saying Morin will amount to anything but damn just let the kid play with the Flyers for a week or so even. Then if he isn't showing anything we can turn the f**king page.

 

I hate that the coaching staff always ask these kids to be perfect before they get a chance and then every night we have to watch these sorry ass vets just go through the motions like they don't give a f**k and they are never scratched or held accountable.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[tucson83]

the only ones that give a crap are fabby and lindblom, i think elliot and hart do but they are struggling right now

[FD19372]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

They should have let him lose on the Flyer's blueline i would rather watch him blow guys up whith thundering body checks along the boards that dressing any of Hagg, Ghost, Braun or Gus.

 

And then well who knows maybe he eventually settles in....but not playing him and giving him a chance with better players we'll never know.

 

I'm not saying Morin will amount to anything but damn just let the kid play with the Flyers for a week or so even. Then if he isn't showing anything we can turn the f**king page.

You can't blow anybody up (a) when you won't hit anybody and (b) when you can't catch anybody. See Samuel Morin.

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I always brine my turkey overnight before roasting. Speaking of turkeys...

 

So does this make you a cannibal? Asking for a friend.

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

You can't blow anybody up (a) when you won't hit anybody and (b) when you can't catch anybody. See Samuel Morin.

 

I don't understand when have you watched him play??? Tony A. said he has looked good for the Phantoms.

 

So i ask my friend when have you watched him skate the blueline for the Flyers on defense???

 

I'm not asking about making him a winger....when have you watched him play for the Flyers???

 

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I don't understand when have you watched him play??? Tony A. said he has looked good for the Phantoms.

 

So i ask my friend when have you watched him skate the blueline for the Flyers on defense???

 

I'm not asking about making him a winger....when have you watched him play for the Flyers???

 

I've seen before, on defense, and I saw enough.  Now...him as a forward...having one more guy who..(and hey I could be wrong, but,) won't consistently use his size and strength..and won't be fast or strong enough on the puck, is not what this team needs right now. More turnovers! He played in five regular season games, two seasons ago...and I don't want another question mark in an already lackluster lineup. Not calling him a bust. Morin would be better served to work on his game with the Phantoms.

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I've seen before, on defense, and I saw enough.

 

One game last year. 

 

Huh.

 

Or the 5 games in 2018-19??

 

Who knew you could evaluate a guy so quickly.

 

Flyers need you in their scouting department maybe even running it.

 

I'll email Chuckles for you.

[Fizz]

10 hours ago, CoachX said:

Im not sure what you mean by "veteran". This is a youngish team, but it isn't a bunch of rookies

 

G, jake, hayes, jvr, coots, laughton, raffl, all 7+ seasons. Lindblom (injuries)is in his 4th. Tk has 5 (all star). Patrick is in his 3rd full season.

 

On D theres Braun, gus, ghost, provy, and hagg.

 

Only Farabee and NAK are regulars in their first full season, but both played a lot last season.

 

You may be right that Hart isnt an all star,  but we all thought he would be. And yes, Elliott isnt, but he's definitely a vet, and a viable #2

 

I just dont see the logic to this argument. All your points seem to illustrate what we all see, you just frame as the coaches fault,  and not the guys who aren't executing

Copied from Broadstreethockey.

This article sums up my thoughts exactly.

 

First things first, would you say Alain Vigneault is a good coach?

This is a loaded question. I don't think Vigneault is a good coach. I think there is a ton of evidence that Vigneault is, in fact, a horrible coach, who was carried by two elite goaltenders (Roberto Luongo and Henrik Lundqvist) in their primes. Vigneault is a man who only knows how to build one machine. If the Flyers happen to have the parts needed to make the machine work, you will love Vigneault as a coach ... until the machine needs new parts. The man, I am convinced, has never looked in a mirror once. He never questioned himself or his decisions, even when they failed (I have more on that here). He needs a room with a lot of veterans because he keeps his hands off the room and lets the players run the show. Kids need to earn ice time and respect and find themselves put in the press box when they make mistakes. This is especially true of kids who bring more offense and make mistakes trying to do it. Once he's cemented a "favorite", that player gets held above any other accountability he would give to any veteran — a move which created animosity in the room with the kids and the vets. Pavel Buchnevich admitted after Vigneault was fired that when he was benched, all Vigneault would tell him was "fight for the puck" and never went into more detail. What's worse, he will make the Philadelphia media fall in love with them, something he did in New York, and it kept the media from going after him at all — which helped him not need to question himself. The things he did in New York that got him fired are the same things he did in Vancouver that got him fired. And at the end of it all, on the final game of the season two years ago, he gave an unprompted speech about how the "coaching staff was the best thing for the team." He has no love for advanced statistics and uses his own "sophisticated stats package" that no one is allowed to know or see. Seriously. I also think it's very telling that once AV was fired, no one, not a single player, came to his defense. And when given the opportunity, EVERY SINGLE former player bashed him after he was fired.

What are his coaching philosophies?

Vigneault preaches a speed game, but his systems often boiled down to a counterattacking team. Set plays were worked to get guys running through the neutral zone with speed and scoring off fast breaks. The problem is Vigneault's system requires defenseman to be able to get the puck in their own zone and start the breakouts, and he did this by making Dan Girardi a top-pair defenseman for four years. When the system failed he ... never adjusted it. At all. Vigneault teams typically get shelled in possession, and find themselves on their heels a lot when the offensive breaks don't go their way. Which comes back to needing elite goaltending to bail him out — which Lundqvist did.

Is he a coach who makes adjustments or does he stick by his gameplan regardless of the outcome?

Vigneault doesn't really adjust, he tweaks. Generally tweaks turn back to the tired and true ideologies (even if they're not working) as soon as something doesn't go the way he wanted it to. He "won't change the lineups" after a win, unless a kid did well and he needed to get one of his guys in. He's sat guys like Kevin Hayes and Buchnevich for Tanner Glass in the playoffs ... multiple times. Wins are wins regardless of how they come. Vigneault took wins as gospel, regardless of how they came. The Rangers won games on Hank's shoulders alone, got crushed in possession, saw players drown in their roles and Vigneault always said "never question a win" and left things as they were.

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

The only comment I'll make on Morin is the following.  Before the season started, we were told he would play in the A to get back in game shape and further develop his skills.  Along comes the season and he is put on the taxi-squad or morphed into a forward.  It looks like the morph experiment has ended.  Now the question is whether he can become a "successful" first round pick, which is defined by the pundits as playing at least 100 NHL games.  If he doesn't hit that mark, the pick is a failure.  

[FD19372]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

One game last year. 

 

Huh.

 

Or the 5 games in 2018-19??

 

Who knew you could evaluate a guy so quickly.

 

Flyers need you in their scouting department maybe even running it.

 

I'll email Chuckles for you.

Ok, fair enough. So I'll pose the question to you.... when have you seen flashes of brilliance enough to call him NHL ready? I understand that he has certain physical attributes and skill, that make him appealing...but what is he going to do for the team. I don't see it. I'm sorry.

[flyer4ever]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

I wonder if the office egg heads are worried that dealing G and jake might backfire like when they dealt Carter and Richards?

If they do, they are dumber than we thought. Apples and orangutans. Richards and Carter were in their prime, all they did was win. Richards was a natural born leader. WJC, Calder, cup finals. 28 & 93 are fading from the light, anything in return would be a bonus based on their contracts and their output.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, FD19372 said:

So I'll pose the question to you.... when have you seen flashes of brilliance enough to call him NHL ready?

 

I haven't that is my point i want to watch him play so i can see.

 

I am tired of watching Ghost, Braun, Hagg and Gus skate for the Flyers i am still waiting for them to shwo me some semblance of them knowing WTF they are doing.

 

So let put the kid in...can it be any worse than what we have been trying to watch and have yet been able to finish watching???

 

Myself i hate watching a prospect skating only with a bunch of other kid who are trying to learn to and trying to "project" of how i "think" he may play with supposedly "better teammates".

 

FCUK IT SKATE HIM!!!!!!!

 

Then we may know better one of A he is worth keeping and just need more time to develop or B there is nothing really there let's cut bait or send him somewhere for anything back in return of value.

 

I think he was drafted in 2013 it is now time to shat or get off the pot since he is finally healthy.

 

That was almost 8 years ago he was drafted...

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, Poconono said:

I've only made it to one Phantoms game this year but Pouliot looks like a perfect fit for the Flyers.  He was -3 after losing the puck at the point twice leading to SH goals and was caught up ice on an even strength goal.  But then he scored the game winner in the third period.  Ghost 2.0.

 

To be honest, I can't stand Sam Morin because he's never gonna be that Pronger type d-man everyone used to claim he would be, but he's actually the best defenseman on the Phantoms from what I saw that night and on TV.  Still too slow for the NHL though.

Ok so Pouliot is a perfect partner for Gus, maybe they can beat Sanheim and Meyers -5 in one game.  I’m surprised you thought Morin was slow, they always said he was a very good skater for a big guy. 

[FD19372]

6 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

If they do, they are dumber than we thought. Apples and orangutans. Richards and Carter were in their prime, all they did was win. Richards was a natural born leader. WJC, Calder, cup finals. 28 & 93 are fading from the light, anything in return would be a bonus based on their contracts and their output.

You're right...it is apples and oranges. Most likely, Richards and Carter were traded, in large part, because of their exploits in Margate and Sea Isle, NJ. Giroux and Voracek should be traded because they aren't productive enough to meet the standards set, by being signed to such ridiculously overpaid, contracts...WITH NMCs, or at least now Giroux still has one.