GrittyForever Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 7 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: it’s not about getting rich it’s about fair market value. There is no reason to take less than he’s worth. Allowing a competing team to grab Hayes for 3 years at $3.55mil would be a sign of weakness on Briere’s part. Similarly if it’s the only deal offered that would indicate - to me anyway - that Briere played the negotiating game poorly and ended up getting beat. “open for business” is one thing “I’ll take anything” is another. GMs thinking of doing business with the Flyers will be watching closely what happens with Hayes. As much as it would pain me to see him in the O&B next year it would be worse to see Briere get rolled. You're missing the point though. We just want him gone. As Torts said, the team needs subtraction first then addition. Briere will try for some sort of "value" I am sure, but in the end, anything/nothing is better than ending up starting the season with this clown still on the roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, GrittyForever said: You're missing the point though. We just want him gone. As Torts said, the team needs subtraction first then addition. Briere will try for some sort of "value" I am sure, but in the end, anything/nothing is better than ending up starting the season with this clown still on the roster. Hayes is the affordable - at ~$4M - third line center someone "needs." Hopefully that team hires Chuck Fletcher. Or, for that matter, any team hires Chuck Fletcher. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 4 hours ago, radoran said: Hayes is the affordable - at ~$4M - third line center someone "needs." Hopefully that team hires Chuck Fletcher. Or, for that matter, any team hires Chuck Fletcher. After what he did in Minnesota, there's no way anyone would be dumb enough to hire him again.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 10 hours ago, GrittyForever said: You're missing the point though. We just want him gone. Nobody wants him gone more than me* but you’re missing the point. Either that or for some reason you refuse to accept it. The point is Hayes’ value is higher than $3.55mil. Not to you or me, not to the Flyers but to some desperate GM. Fletcher isn’t the only fool out there (though he is the champion). *and @flyercanuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 29 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: Nobody wants him gone more than me* but you’re missing the point. Either that or for some reason you refuse to accept it. The point is Hayes’ value is higher than $3.55mil. Not to you or me, not to the Flyers but to some desperate GM. Fletcher isn’t the only fool out there (though he is the champion). *and @flyercanuck I will believe it when Hayes is on another team and the Flyers aren’t retaining 50%. Until then, I don’t see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Getting rid of Hayes should be low priority. I've been hearing that the Flyers have been rebuilding since Briere was hired, but until he pulled the trigger on the Provorov deal, they hadn't started. They need to continue to tear down and collect 1st round picks and high level prospects. They'll only get them by trading assets with value, like Konecny and Hart. Losing Hayes, Atkinson, Risto, Ellis, and Couturier would be great, but those deals should only be done if they don't have to give up anything of real value (nothing higher than a 3rd rounder). And they now have some nice young players, but are any of them actual franchise-makers? Briere needs to take an honest look at these players and decide which would be best used as trade bait. This is gonna take awhile, but it beats the purgatory we've been in for the past 13 years. Oh, and if Michkov drops to #7, I hope they take him. This is the time to swing for the fences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) On 6/21/2023 at 9:19 AM, GratefulFlyers said: Nobody wants him gone more than me* but you’re missing the point. Either that or for some reason you refuse to accept it. The point is Hayes’ value is higher than $3.55mil. Not to you or me, not to the Flyers but to some desperate GM. Fletcher isn’t the only fool out there (though he is the champion). *and @flyercanuck Alright, tell me the hypothetical deal? 10-1 if you were GM, with this attitude, you'd end up stuck with him much like Fletcher left JVR behind (which just boggles the mind still). IF Hayes had the "value" you suggest, we wouldn't want him gone so badly. I just don't care about "winning" the trade, I just want him GONE. Edited June 25, 2023 by pilldoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 As fans we can't possibly know the true value a player has to a team. We look at Hayes, and clearly see useless and overpaid. We arm chair every move, and anguish over the impossibility of moving the player. But just because he has ZERO value to the Flyers, doesn't mean some other team cannot use, and may even be successful, with him on their roster Time and again, the Flyers have been hamstrung by this type of issue, only to find a way to move on. VLC is a shining example of this. Instead of trying to get lucky enough to call out a plan that gets Hayes moved, just so I can bask in the knowledge of my own glory, I look to the logic as a barometer. There is no way the Flyers want him, and no way he wants to be in Philly. Don't fret... .Hayes will be gone 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, CoachX said: As fans we can't possibly know the true value a player has to a team. We look at Hayes, and clearly see useless and overpaid. We arm chair every move, and anguish over the impossibility of moving the player. But just because he has ZERO value to the Flyers, doesn't mean some other team cannot use, and may even be successful, with him on their roster Time and again, the Flyers have been hamstrung by this type of issue, only to find a way to move on. VLC is a shining example of this. Instead of trying to get lucky enough to call out a plan that gets Hayes moved, just so I can bask in the knowledge of my own glory, I look to the logic as a barometer. There is no way the Flyers want him, and no way he wants to be in Philly. Don't fret... .Hayes will be gone Well this idea is true. Buffalo was trying desperately to get rid of some bad D man from Finland and then a stupid team offered up a bunch of picks so you never know. There are stupid GMs out there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 I'm more than fine with retaining 3 mill of KH contract and getting a 7th or even future considerations...ie you might owe us a slight upgrade if we make a deal under the Briere regime...lol. I remember when we got Hayes...it was split 50/50 on whether it was a good deal. FC was rather outspoken on it sucking and even warned it would screw us over! Amazing how spot on FC has been through the years! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) So not worthless...solid company... Get to work Danny. Edited June 22, 2023 by OccamsRazor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 hours ago, jammer2 said: I'm more than fine with retaining 3 mill of KH contract and getting a 7th or even future considerations...ie you might owe us a slight upgrade if we make a deal under the Briere regime...lol. I remember when we got Hayes...it was split 50/50 on whether it was a good deal. FC was rather outspoken on it sucking and even warned it would screw us over! Amazing how spot on FC has been through the years! Ahem! My first post on this site, prompted by Hayes signing: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 To all of you who were right in saying Kevin Hayes was a horrible signing, . I hope Briere has you on speed dial for the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: So not worthless...solid company... Get to work Danny. Yes, when Sean Monahan signing significantly affects the FA depth at Center...well, let's just say this is not 2019 Sean Monahan...lol. It is a thin crop of UFAs at C. Here is where the leverage ends...Hayes has serious skating deficiencies....and its not lack of motivation (ok...maybe some)...he has serious lead in boot disease, and its only gonna get worse. Imagine what his skating looks like in 2-3 years?? All GMs are gonna be asking themselves this very question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, jammer2 said: Yes, when Sean Monahan signing significantly affects the FA depth at Center...well, let's just say this is not 2019 Sean Monahan...lol. It is a thin crop of UFAs at C. Here is where the leverage ends...Hayes has serious skating deficiencies....and its not lack of motivation (ok...maybe some)...he has serious lead in boot disease, and its only gonna get worse. Imagine what his skating looks like in 2-3 years?? All GMs are gonna be asking themselves this very question! If they pick up like reported 2-3 mill he will get a trade offer...whatever it is i take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: If they pick up like reported 2-3 mill he will get a trade offer...whatever it is i take it. Agreed. Salary retention is a necessary evil here. The key is freeing up cap space for 3 yrs down the road...when the Fletcher mess is (hoping) cleared up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 minute ago, jammer2 said: Agreed. Salary retention is a necessary evil here. The key is freeing up cap space for 3 yrs down the road...when the Fletcher mess is (hoping) cleared up! I just want to move on from debacle known as Kevin Hayes. Ended worse than even some said would happen (but not all due to his play actually stat wise he had a good year on a sh it team.). It finally feels like change is happening it would be nice to have another move to help reassure us all...but we'll wait. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 I know he should go. But it may not be easy. He is a declining asset, even with significant salary eating. My probabilities (cumulative) of departure: 0.33 by next week 0.66 by trade deadline Yes, I think he may be out of here by next week or even by season's end. But I still see being stuck with him given his slow speed. I have a sickening feeling there's a relatively good chance (.33) a buyout is likely. I wonder if a team would take him (with or without a partial salary dump), plus Ellis' salary as compensation? What a twofer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 On 6/18/2023 at 2:50 PM, GrittyForever said: Just a very bad role model and so, as I said before, whatever it takes. Get him gone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 18 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: stat wise he had a good year on a sh it team That is the dictionary definition of "Kevin Hayes" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 4:44 PM, jammer2 said: Yes, when Sean Monahan signing significantly affects the FA depth at Center...well, let's just say this is not 2019 Sean Monahan...lol. It is a thin crop of UFAs at C. Here is where the leverage ends...Hayes has serious skating deficiencies....and its not lack of motivation (ok...maybe some)...he has serious lead in boot disease, and its only gonna get worse. Imagine what his skating looks like in 2-3 years?? All GMs are gonna be asking themselves this very question! I cant wait to see Coots skating with his bad back,nerve damage and 7 year contract. This could make Hayes' skting look like Yvan Courneyer. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, RonJeremy said: I cant wait to see Coots skating with his bad back,nerve damage and 7 year contract. This could make Hayes' skting look like Yvan Courneyer. I can live with this for now... Joel Farabee – Morgan Frost – Owen Tippett Olle Lycksell – Sean Couturier – Tyson Foerster Noah Cates – Elliot Desnoyers – Cam Atkinson Nicolas Deslauriers – Tanner Laczynski – Wade Allison Cam York - Sean Walker Nick Seeler – Rasmus Ristolainen Egor Zamula – Ronnie Attard Carter Hart Felix Sandstrom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted June 24, 2023 Author Share Posted June 24, 2023 So this is apparently a thing: Which would suggest a dump of Hayes isn't going to get us much (if anything). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 23 minutes ago, GrittyForever said: So this is apparently a thing: Which would suggest a dump of Hayes isn't going to get us much (if anything). Which is fine by me as long as he is gone!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 38 minutes ago, GrittyForever said: So this is apparently a thing: Which would suggest a dump of Hayes isn't going to get us much (if anything). This won't be a popular sentiment and will garner more disagreement than agreement, but I actually rate Hayes as better than Johansen. I thought Ryan was a fraud when he still played better than he currently does. Both should be better than they are and both float. I'd pay little for either, but I'd pay more for Hayes if the store was out of fertilizer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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