Game 26: Philadelphia Flyers at Arizona Coyotes; 12/7/23 @ 9 PM, NBCSP

[Howie58]

Howdy:

 

Here is a piece on "The Process" which supports Mojo's view:

 

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/The-Philadelphia-76ers-Trust-the-Process

 

I think it would be interesting to see if the Flyers' problem has been that our first rounders (in particular) have not been as good as expected--or if they have simply not made it to the 100 game benchmark that I've seen for "making it" to the NHL?  I don't have a good answer.  Or even a not-so-good answer.  Stated differently--Maybe Morin wasn't first-pair, but if he was at least a Seeler-type, how would the franchise been hurt or helped?  Maybe Patrick or Rubstov would have been Laughtonesque.  Fine...better than zilch.  

 

Having protected top-10 picks is important.  But I suspect it is one of many factors.  

[Howie58]

1 minute ago, flyer4ever said:

"if Arizona does bomb"

Please define bomb. That franchise has been festering manure from day 1, ever since the bett turd put it there.

How about if I say:  Somewhere near the league average in attendance, break-even in finances by Forbes' assessment, and an occasional playoff birth.  My gut says this franchise might not check any of those boxes.  BTW, my backyard FL Panthers are doing well on the ice, but their attendance and finances aren't so hot.  

[GratefulFlyers]

5 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Meanwhile, tomorrow in Colorado.  

Don’t look now but the Avs and the Flyers are not very far away from each other in the league standings. 

 

The Avs are tough especially at home but like the Flyers their PP isn’t working very well. And like the Flyers they’re not real good on draws. Both teams’ PK is very good. 
 

Nice to see the Flyers with a +7 in the GF/GA differential it’s been awhile since they were a plus.

[flyerdog]

On 12/7/2023 at 4:59 PM, ruxpin said:

 

Does LA have lakes?

Does Utah have Jazz?

Does Toronto understand how to pluralize Leaf?

 

I get your intent, though.   It's just always amazed me that the Lakers nor the Jazz bothered to change their names when they moved.

true...does make the team names a little awkward. I made this joke to a friend of mine, asking him: "Are there Coyotes in Quebec?" and he responded, "Who knows, there may be some soon!"

 

[flyerdog]

On 12/7/2023 at 4:59 PM, ruxpin said:

 

Does LA have lakes?

Does Utah have Jazz?

Does Toronto understand how to pluralize Leaf?

 

I get your intent, though.   It's just always amazed me that the Lakers nor the Jazz bothered to change their names when they moved.

true...does make the team names a little awkward. I made this joke to a friend of mine, asking him: "Are there Coyotes in Quebec?" and he responded, "Who knows, there may be some soon!"

 

[OccamsRazor]

20 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Crouse wide open point blank.

 

Had to let his BFF score.

[MaineFlyFan]

And just so you all know, there are MOST DEFINITELY coyotes in Quebec!.... big ones.

 

CARRY ON..... ;.)

 

 

[flyercanuck]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:50 AM, mojo1917 said:

 

I count zero championships, zero finals appearances for the Sixers, whom I follow and am a fan of....and Joel Ebiid whom I actually like as modern player and erstwhile internet troll is going to be 30 in March.

 

How many championships have the Flyers won with their "always going for it" way again? Gonna be 50 years soon without one. I could care a less about the Sixers...in basketball, you can just get 3 elite buddies to say "Hey, lets go play here" and voila, championship. Hockey doesn't work that way. In boxing none of the champions are 1st overall picks. 

 

THREE teams have managed to win in the last 25 Stanley Cups without at least one 1st overall pick on their team. I didn't count Vegas because it's virtually impossible for any other team to build that way. That sounds to me like you kind of need at least one 1st overall pick. And of course it matters whether it's a Nail Yakupov or a real star, and whether you can provide depth for those stars. 

 

I'd say if you're happy with the Flyers competing almost every night, but likely never winning a cup...then just keep doing what they've been doing all along. Other than hiring sons of Clarkes buddies. Me, I want a cup. I've watched them be good, never great, for way too long. I've even had the pleasure of watching them lose 6 finals in a row....to teams with at least one 1st overall pick on it. Go figure.

Edited December 9, 2023 by flyercanuck

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

How many championships have the Flyers won with their "always going for it" way again? Gonna be 50 years soon without one. I could care a less about the Sixers...in basketball, you can just get 3 elite buddies to say "Hey, lets go play here" and voila, championship. Hockey doesn't work that way. In boxing none of the champions are 1st overall picks. 

 

THREE teams have managed to win in the last 25 Stanley Cups without at least one 1st overall pick on their team. I didn't count Vegas because it's virtually impossible for any other team to build that way. That sounds to me like you kind of need at least one 1st overall pick. And of course it matters whether it's a Nail Yakupov or a real star. 

 

I'd say if you're happy with the Flyers competing almost every night, but likely never winning a cup...then just keep doing what they've been doing all along. Other than hiring sons of Clarkes buddies. Me, I want a cup. I've watched them be good, never great, for way too long. I've even had the pleasure of watching them lose 6 finals in a row....to teams with at least one 1st overall pick on it. Go figure.

I agree with you 100%. That’s why we need to make some big trades at the deadline, for the right price of course.  Konecny is on his way to a forty goal season, if we can get a fantastic return, I’d trade him.  I would also check the market for Hart. By making the right trades and right draft picks we can speed up our rebuild by a couple of years. Atkinson, Walker, Risto and Laughton should also be traded if possible. Someone offered a first round pick for Laughton last year, I would do that in a heartbeat.  Poehling can replace Laughton for half the price. If we can get a prospect or second round pick for each of the other guys , that would be great, Konecny can get us a huge return and we will still be strong at RW with Brink ,Foerester and Tippett. If we do this ,we lose a lot of leadership and our defense is weakened greatly, but sometimes you have to take two steps back to take one step forward . Of course the corporate dbags running the show may smell playoff $$$ and discourage Briere from making trades.This is a huge opportunity to stock up for the future.

[flyercanuck]

57 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

sometimes you have to take two steps back to take one step forward . Of course the corporate dbags running the show may smell playoff $$$ and discourage Briere from making trades.This is a huge opportunity to stock up for the future.

 

Agree on the first comment, and am scared s***less of the second one coming to fruition.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Agree on the first comment, and am scared s***less of the second one coming to fruition.

 

We'll see if the Flyers are still always ahead of schedule and doing better than expected

 

It's like rushing a guy back from injury. He scores in the first game and then aggravates the issue and winds up back on IR.

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by radoran

[Fuzz]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

How many championships have the Flyers won with their "always going for it" way again? Gonna be 50 years soon without one. I could care a less about the Sixers...in basketball, you can just get 3 elite buddies to say "Hey, lets go play here" and voila, championship. Hockey doesn't work that way. In boxing none of the champions are 1st overall picks. 

 

THREE teams have managed to win in the last 25 Stanley Cups without at least one 1st overall pick on their team. I didn't count Vegas because it's virtually impossible for any other team to build that way. That sounds to me like you kind of need at least one 1st overall pick. And of course it matters whether it's a Nail Yakupov or a real star, and whether you can provide depth for those stars. 

 

I'd say if you're happy with the Flyers competing almost every night, but likely never winning a cup...then just keep doing what they've been doing all along. Other than hiring sons of Clarkes buddies. Me, I want a cup. I've watched them be good, never great, for way too long. I've even had the pleasure of watching them lose 6 finals in a row....to teams with at least one 1st overall pick on it. Go figure.

Well said & true!

[tucson83]

7 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

 

I'd say if you're happy with the Flyers competing almost every night, but likely never winning a cup...then just keep doing what they've been doing all along. Other than hiring sons of Clarkes buddies. Me, I want a cup. I've watched them be good, never great, for way too long. I've even had the pleasure of watching them lose 6 finals in a row....to teams with at least one 1st overall pick on it. Go figure.

 

if no one got hurt by competing, we could have won the cup at least 3 times in 2000, 2004, 2010 and yet you would rather throw in white towel and be the sens, sabres, oilers of garbarge and never make the playoffs again, how are you going to be patient and happy by doing this way? especially if we dont make the playoffs again? your problem is you cant accept losing in the playoffs and building from it, you want playoffs and championships the same year, it doesnt work like that. you dont want to understand how hard it is to win in the playoffs and get the right matchups and everyone staying healthy, i get that you want to win a cup, everyone on here does but tanking is not the way.

 

you need to win and attract talent that can get you over the hump, you cant just draft your way to  a cup, it's impossible, oilers, sabres, sens, what impact players have they attracted that's gotten them over hump?

 

we got good players on this roster without tanking and we can attract more talent, if you just be patient and stop acting like winning the worst ever because if you are going to throw it all away and draft the second coming of nolan patrick, you are asking for more misery and nothing will come out of it accept more losing seasons and no playoffs, you are telling me you are going to happy with that? you think sabres, sens, and oilers are happy where they are at?

Edited December 9, 2023 by tucson83

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

 

if no one got hurt by competing, we could have won the cup at least 3 times in 2000, 2004, 2010 and yet you would rather throw in white towel and be the sens, sabres, oilers of garbarge and never make the playoffs again, how are you going to be patient and happy by doing this way? especially if we dont make the playoffs again? your problem is you cant accept losing in the playoffs and building from it, you want playoffs and championships the same year, it doesnt work like that. you dont want to understand how hard it is to win in the playoffs and get the right matchups and everyone staying healthy, i get that you want to win a cup, everyone on here does but tanking is not the way.

 

you need to win and attract talent that can get you over the hump, you cant just draft your way to  a cup, it's impossible, oilers, sabres, sens, what impact players have they attracted that's gotten them over hump?

 

we got good players on this roster without tanking and we can attract more talent, if you just be patient and stop acting like winning the worst ever because if you are going to throw it all away and draft the second coming of nolan patrick, you are asking for more misery and nothing will come out of it accept more losing seasons and no playoffs, you are telling me you are going to happy with that? you think sabres, sens, and oilers are happy where they are at?

 

You still haven't answered what you thought was so great about Chuck Fletcher.

 

Here's how you told us to build a winner last year..." you can move sanheim, tk, provy like what's so hard about moving from some of these players? let york, zamula, and another young d come in and see what they got, they are nothing special and you have your experienced right pairing d, that's pretty much balanced. and sign johnny g, build the talent pool."

 

Too bad we didn't get rid of our best defenceman and our best player, to sign some washed up bum to a long term contract that would have been soooooo Chuck Fletcher the Flyers couldn't dig their way out of that hole with an excavator. But keep telling me how to build a winner. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by flyercanuck

[Fuzz]

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

 

you need to win and attract talent that can get you over the hump, you cant just draft your way to  a cup,

 

I suppose the Pittsburgh Penquins didn't draft their way to many Cups. 

And, as been previously pointed out, almost all Cups in the last 25 years have been won by teams that have drafted a #1 overall player.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

 

I suppose the Pittsburgh Penquins didn't draft their way to many Cups. 

And, as been previously pointed out, almost all Cups in the last 25 years have been won by teams that have drafted a #1 overall player.

 

Well the Flyers did in 2007 when they had the worst record...oh wait.

 

Well then did again in 2017 when they had the worst record...oh wait!!!

 

Nevermind carry on...

 

[flyercanuck]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well the Flyers did in 2007 when they had the worst record...oh wait.

 

Well then did again in 2017 when they had the worst record...oh wait!!!

 

Nevermind carry on...

 

 

Philly was nowhere near the worst in 2017...we just lucked out in the lottery and moved up from 13th. And then bad lucked out on the pick.

Edited December 9, 2023 by flyercanuck

[Fuzz]

8 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Philly was nowhere near the worst in 2017...we just lucked out in the lottery and moved up from 13th. And then bad lucked out on the pick.

That's correct. 

It was partly bad luck & Hextall being stubborn with his pick at #2.

[flyercanuck]

7 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

It was partly bad luck & Hextall being stubborn with his pick at #2.

 

Well Patrick and Hischier were considered 1/2 in the draft. 

[Fuzz]

13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Well Patrick and Hischier were considered 1/2 in the draft. 

That's very true.  However from what I hear most of the Flyers scouts were telling him to pick Makar instead of Patrick.

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, Fuzz said:

That's very true.  However from what I hear most of the Flyers scouts were telling him to pick Makar instead of Patrick.

This is make believe.

[mojo1917]

@flyercanuck

And everyone else.

 

My favorite football team has never intentionally sucked, they've been all around the championship conversation for the better part of 25 years.

 

My favorite baseball team has intentionally been bad for stretches of the last 30 years and after 30 years maybe they've built themselves an organization? 

 

I just chronicled the hoops squad. 

 

There is no argument that can be made that will convince me getting rid of good players and being terrible is the answer to anything-But being terrible.

So save your fingers the arthritis. 

 

Losing is for losers.

The end.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by mojo1917

[tucson83]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You still haven't answered what you thought was so great about Chuck Fletcher.

 

Here's how you told us to build a winner last year..." you can move sanheim, tk, provy like what's so hard about moving from some of these players? let york, zamula, and another young d come in and see what they got, they are nothing special and you have your experienced right pairing d, that's pretty much balanced. and sign johnny g, build the talent pool."

 

Too bad we didn't get rid of our best defenceman and our best player, to sign some washed up bum to a long term contract that would have been soooooo Chuck Fletcher the Flyers couldn't dig their way out of that hole with an excavator. But keep telling me how to build a winner. 

fact is i'll be happy when this team wins cup, for some reason you wont be.

Edited December 9, 2023 by tucson83

[Fuzz]

2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

This is make believe.

You can believe what you want to believe...........

[radoran]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

There is no argument that can be made that will convince me getting rid of good players and being terrible is the answer to anything-But being terrible.

 

You are right that dealing players specifically to be terrible is a bad idea.

 

You also know that getting value for players that don't fit a long term plan is a solid way to build a team.

 

Dealing Cam Atkinson for a bag of pucks to see if an AHL guy can cut it is bad asset management.

 

Dealing Cam Atkinson for a 1 or 2 at the deadline to a team that needs help at the wing makes perfect sense. EVEN IF it scuttles a "possible playoff berth."

 

I think that as other teams come together and start making playoffs pushes that the "hard work an effort" of this squad will even put in the light of better talent.

 

I would prefer to have a top 5 draft pick than 5-10 but we'll see where the ping pong balls bounce.

 

The main thing is that no matter what spit and bailing wire holding together "playoff run" they've got to stay the rebuilding course.

 

I don't even think a Mrazek-type deal filling injury makes sense.

 

I have no problem letting this team be as good as it can be.

 

They still need to maximize assets and be focused on a REAL 3-5 year plan (that started with this year).

 

The Flyers need to be dealers at the deadline. They can be whoever they want to otherwise.

Edited December 10, 2023 by radoran