Flyers Half-Way Assessment: Your Take?

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

Zegras meanwhile has as many points as Nic Seeler, though in half as many games.  

 

 

Really man that is just lazy

 

Trevor has missed time and only played in 20 games and Seeler played in 44 games come on do better.

 

Apparently you don't like the kid so we are done discussing him.

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

but at what cost?

 

Therein lies the issue. Like I said before, the Ducks aren't giving him away....and the Flyers are hardly overflowing with quality prospects. Can we afford to package 2-1st rounders and maybe a prospect for a Zegras? I personally would rather give up the farm for a true #1 centre...if one was available. 

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Really man that is just lazy

 

Trevor has missed time and only played in 20 games and Seeler played in 44 games come on do better.

 

Apparently you don't like the kid so we are done discussing him.

 

You do know what the wink means, right? 

Look, if Zegras played for Philly, I'd like his highlight shows. But I don't want to give up the farm for a guy who's maybe not one dimensional, but certainly not what I consider a cornerstone piece. 

 

[pilldoc]

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I would certainly love to have Zegras on the LW of our top line but at what cost?

 

And that is the million dollar question ..... what are you willing to part with without selling the farm .....

 

I posted this earlier .....

 

For the sake of argument I figure it will cost probably at least a 1st and either a 2nd/3rd rounder and at least 1 of either (Foerster or Brink).   I am leaving out Michkov because had the Ducks wanted him, they would have drafted him.

 

They might want a veteran player in return ....  The Ducks could theoretically ask for a player like TK or Hart.

Are you willing to part with that .....  ????

Edited January 18 by pilldoc

[flyercanuck]

6 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

And that is the million dollar question ..... what are you willing to part with without selling the farm .....

 

I posted this earlier .....

 

For the sake of argument I figure it will cost probably at least a 1st and either a 2nd/3rd rounder and at least 1 of either (Foerster or Brink).   I am leaving out Michkov because had the Ducks wanted him, they would have drafted him.

 

They might want a veteran player in return ....  The Ducks could theoretically ask for a player like TK or Hart.

Are you willing to part with that .....  ????

 

See, if it was a 1st, a 3rd and Brink, I'd do it. No to Konecny. No to Hart. I think they will get more than that for him for someone who wants some dazzle, he certainly has that. 

[Digityman]

5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

See, if it was a 1st, a 3rd and Brink, I'd do it. No to Konecny. No to Hart.

This.   1st, 3rd and Brink.  No problem.  Don't think it gets it done though. 

 

Hart nor Konecny in this proposed trade however, I would be okay with trading either/both for the right deals.  

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

1st and either a 2nd/3rd rounder and at least 1 of either (Foerster or Brink). 

 

Sold.

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, Digityman said:

This.   1st, 3rd and Brink.  No problem.  Don't think it gets it done though. 

 

Hart nor Konecny in this proposed trade however, I would be okay with trading either/both for the right deals.  

 

 

1st (Panthers) 3rd, Brink and Tippett should be enough.

[pilldoc]

For the sake of argument ...since we ARE discussing it The Athletic acutally did an article regarding this very same topic 2 days ago...and I quote:

 

"General manager Pat Verbeek showed just how bold he is willing to get to progress the Anaheim Ducks’ rebuild after shaking things up with the Jamie Drysdale trade. For the right offer, maybe that continues by dealing Trevor Zegras. 

 

The Ducks aren’t actively shopping Zegras. But there’s some smoke around him after management made such a splash with the Drysdale trade.....

 

 

Zegras hasn’t done enough to follow up on his exciting rookie season, which has cast some doubt on whether he can be a game-breaker in Anaheim. The forward has to prove there’s real substance to his game and that it’s not all flash. At 22 years old, there’s time for him to get to that point. But the longer the Ducks wait, the more management risks losing value if that potential doesn’t turn into star power.

 

The Ducks have stockpiled young talent, including Mason McTavish, Leo Carlsson, and now Cutter Gauthier up front. And they’re bound for another high draft pick to add to that at the end of this season. That doesn’t have to make Zegras expendable. The more young stars in Anaheim, the stronger their window of contention should be. But similar to the Drysdale trade, there could be a way to turn an area of surplus (in this case, top-six center depth), into something management feels will be more valuable — especially if management feels McTavish and Carlsson have a better chance of reaching that elite impact status over Zegras at that position. 

 

Players like Zegras often don’t get moved. But maybe because he was drafted by a previous regime heightens the chance of a trade. That would allow Verbeek and his staff to keep putting their stamp on the team.

 

 

Why would a team want to acquire him?

Zegras can bring exceptional skill and creativity to a lineup. He’s gutsy with some of the risks he takes to make a highlight-reel play, and at times, has backed up that flash below the surface. In his rookie season, along with solid results, he showed he could be counted on to move the puck up ice with control and generate scoring chances. 

 

The problem is what he’s done since, which is why he only signed a bridge deal this fall. 

 

If the Ducks are moving on from Zegras, it’s because they don’t see that franchise potential anymore — and the last two years are what have lessened his chances of getting there. So an acquiring team has to either bet on the idea that he can get to that level in a better on-ice environment, or that he can be the secondary star they’ve been missing to complement their franchise cornerstone. The latter may not be as enticing, but it’s still super valuable considering how hard high-end talent can be to acquire outside of the draft. 

 

Which teams should be interested? 

(I won't list all the teams ....just the Flyers since it is in the article)

 

 

Philadelphia Flyers :
Zegras to the Flyers could work for more reasons besides reuniting him with his best friend after the Drysdale trade. 

 

With Drysdale, the Flyers did address an area of need on the blue line. But they lost a high-end forward who was expected to be part of their turnaround. While Zegras isn’t the perfect replacement for Cutter Gauthier, he’d add some oomph to their forward group in the short and long term.

 

BUT AGAIN ...the question that begs to be asked ....at what cost?  It comes down to assest management .... if you are shipping 3-4 assests out (picks/players) ...is that REALLY good use of assests for a team also in rebuilding like the Flyers .....  

 

IMO ... I think its naive to think Torts would shelter a guy like Zegras. Either he adapts to the teams form or stays in the doghouse.

 

In addition Zegras is certainly not a player the Ducks have to move — either at this deadline or beyond it.  It’s worth noting that Zegras isn’t expected to return to the Ducks lineup again until just before the trade deadline after having surgery on a broken ankle.

[mojo1917]

I think one of Seeler or Walker should be moved for assets at this trade deadline. If both are traded that's fine too, but I think if the management wants to give this roster a chance to make the playoffs one of those guys can be used for rebuilding without crushing the room.

I think the emergence of Zamula as a not ****** player makes one of those guys expendable.

If it were me, I think I keep Seeler. I think Walker brings back more in a trade and I think Seeler can be extended for a reasonable cap-hit.

I also think Nick Seeler is a heck of a teammate, he hits, blocks shots, fights, he competes his ass off every night.  I think the young guys like having him around. 

I think there are more intangibles with Seeler but more skill with Walker. 

I also think Tippett could be useful for bringing in more assets. He's been really good, but to @JR Ewing 's point, it often appears like he doesn't know he has teammates on the ice with him. At least when he's carrying the puck that's how it looks- is this because of his speed? or is it because he's not capable or raising others games. Not everyone can do that and there is value to having a guy that can get his own shot...but the more I watch him the more I think, this is as good as it gets, which is good, but he's not an over my dead body trade candidate the way I think Konecny is. 

 

A lot of tough choices coming down the pipe here shortly

 

[flyercanuck]

 

30 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

it often appears like he doesn't know he has teammates on the ice with him. At least when he's carrying the puck that's how it looks- is this because of his speed? or is it because he's not capable or raising others games.

 

It's always been the knock on him going back to the Steelheads, the guy can fly, and has a good hard shot, though not always accurate. But he can get tunnel vision when he has the puck. If someone came up with a generous offer, I wouldn't turn it down. Be curious to see what he thinks his next contract should be. 

[GratefulFlyers]

Tippett is about to turn 25 and entering his prime. He's got great speed with the puck and he's got the moves to score big goals like the other night's GWer - a classic power forward move.

 

What is the right return for him? At some point you have to take "YES" for an answer - meaning appreciating what you have. Stockpiling picks and prospects is not a rebuild plan. Tippett is a 30+ goal-scorer who maybe needs to develop his vision and playmaking. That can be taught, drilled, worked on in practice. What can't be taught is a "nose for the net," which he's got.

 

Obviously it'll come down to what he wants/expects but I would err on the side of keeping him. The Flyers have been down the penny-wise-pound-foolish road often enough I hope they don't mistake the same mistake with Tippett.

[flyer4ever]

Zegras in the lineup and Frost and Brink gone makes the team better. Period. Are they going to draft anyone who is going to be better than Zegras? No. Will he make space for Tipett and/or Forerster ? Yes. Can you toss in a 2nd or 3rd to make it happen? Yes.

[JR Ewing]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I think one of Seeler or Walker should be moved for assets at this trade deadline. If both are traded that's fine too, but I think if the management wants to give this roster a chance to make the playoffs one of those guys can be used for rebuilding without crushing the room.

I think the emergence of Zamula as a not ****** player makes one of those guys expendable.

If it were me, I think I keep Seeler. I think Walker brings back more in a trade and I think Seeler can be extended for a reasonable cap-hit.

I also think Nick Seeler is a heck of a teammate, he hits, blocks shots, fights, he competes his ass off every night.  I think the young guys like having him around. 

I think there are more intangibles with Seeler but more skill with Walker.

 

Between the two I'd move Seeler, but mainly because he's batting so far over .500 this year that a GM might be willing to over-pay.

 

Quote

I also think Tippett could be useful for bringing in more assets. He's been really good, but to @JR Ewing 's point, it often appears like he doesn't know he has teammates on the ice with him. At least when he's carrying the puck that's how it looks- is this because of his speed? or is it because he's not capable or raising others games. Not everyone can do that and there is value to having a guy that can get his own shot...but the more I watch him the more I think, this is as good as it gets, which is good, but he's not an over my dead body trade candidate the way I think Konecny is. 

 

Tippett is fast and has a powerful shot, but as @flyercanuck said, his tunnel vision has been the book on him dating back to his days in the OHL. Guys who don't see and make use of their teammates just aren't the type who can make their teammates better, and tend to be complimentary players.

 

 

He doesn't have the vision or the IQ to keep up with his feet, imo.

Edited January 19 by JR Ewing

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

Zegras in the lineup and Frost and Brink gone makes the team better. Period. Are they going to draft anyone who is going to be better than Zegras? No. Will he make space for Tipett and/or Forerster ? Yes. Can you toss in a 2nd or 3rd to make it happen? Yes.

 

Yep.

 

 

I'll be happy if you sell...

[GratefulFlyers]

Flyers’ fans crack me up. For years you all swear you’re dying to get a pure goal scorer, someone with a shoot-first mentality …. and when you get one you want to trade him.

I can appreciate “the book” on a player but that book was written years ago. I don’t see a selfish, tunnel vision type in Tippett I see a guy with great wheels who uses them to create seams and lanes and can score from anywhere….

….like tonight off the FO (Couturier win) thru a Stars’ defender and over Oettinger, who’s playing great. It would take a laser to beat him and that’s what Tippett’s got. 

 

Defensively he backchecks and has an active stick…I just don’t see any gaping holes in his game. 

[OccamsRazor]

Tippett was Chuckles trade so Danny feels no allegiance i'm sure.

 

It's business he still wants a Cup missed it as a player i am sure winning one as a GM would be an amazing second place and he'd be a hero in Philly forever.

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Flyers’ fans crack me up. For years you all swear you’re dying to get a pure goal scorer, someone with a shoot-first mentality …. and when you get one you want to trade him.

 

It's a rebuild and and i don't want to pay him what he wants i only am offering 5 mill per for 3 years tops he will want more and more likely get more just not in Philly.

 

It's a rebuild and it's business he is the type you want to be trading for when you're ready heading into the playoffs and expecting to go to a conference finals or finals no less and the Flyers are not that ain't or won't be that for well maybe in 3 years.

 

So move him now and help speed up the rebuild even....

 

 

 

Edited January 19 by OccamsRazor
fix boo boo

[CoachX]

11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

It's a rebuild and it's business he is the type you want to be trading for when you're ready heading into the playoffs and expecting to go to a conference finals or finals no less and the Flyers are not that ain't or won't be that for well maybe in 3 years.

You’re prolly right, but currently they are decisively beating the Stars. They are currently a very good team. The fact that we all expect them to fall apart is speculation. I don’t know what they will be in 3 years, but tonight they are the 9th best team in the league, 4 in the conference and 2 in the division 

 

and Tippett is playing like a damn beast

Edited January 19 by CoachX

[GratefulFlyers]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

It's a rebuild and it's business he is the type you want to be trading for when you're ready heading into the playoffs and expecting to go to a conference finals or finals no less and the Flyers are not that ain't or won't be that for well maybe in 3 years.

See this makes no sense to me. To me the type you trade for when you think you’re ready for a deep PO run is either a game-changer type, usually a big time goal scorer or you add defense provided your set in goal. Tippett is neither of these but he may become a elite goal scorer.

 

Tippett is just beginning his prime NHL years he’s the type you try to get when you’re rebuilding not trade away to see them blossom for a contender.

 

$5mil over 3 years would be an insult. That barely….

 

excuse me Tippett just scored again and WHAT A GOAL. I hope you saw it! Holyshit who is that Dennis Savard?

 

anyway $5 mil for 3 years - you must be joking. 

[GratefulFlyers]

Spin-O-Rama you don’t see those too often these days. Too bad the U.S. doesn’t give a damn about hockey because that goal will be everywhere in Canada tomorrow.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

See this makes no sense to me. To me the type you trade for when you think you’re ready for a deep PO run is either a game-changer type, usually a big time goal scorer or you add defense provided your set in goal. Tippett is neither of these but he may become a elite goal scorer.

 

Tippett is just beginning his prime NHL years he’s the type you try to get when you’re rebuilding not trade away to see them blossom for a contender.

 

$5mil over 3 years would be an insult. That barely….

 

excuse me Tippett just scored again and WHAT A GOAL. I hope you saw it! Holyshit who is that Dennis Savard?

 

anyway $5 mil for 3 years - you must be joking. 

 

As i said we'll agree to completely to disagree.

 

It's business nothing more. 

[GratefulFlyers]

Well I dunno I tend to think of pro sports as much more than “just business” but I take your point. I doubt Briere and Jones will let this year’s surprising success derail their long term plans. But I hardly expect they’ll be blowing it up or anything close to that.

[radoran]

47 minutes ago, CoachX said:

You’re prolly right, but currently they are decisively beating the Stars.

 

Nashville beat the Stars 6-3 a week ago.

 

I don't expect the Flyers to fall apart. I expect them to lose 4-3 in the first round.

 

This will be taken as a "good sign."

Edited January 19 by radoran

[SCFlyguy]

4 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Obviously it'll come down to what he wants/expects but I would err on the side of keeping him. The Flyers have been down the penny-wise-pound-foolish road often enough I hope they don't mistake the same mistake with Tippett.

This is absolutely a delusional thing to say.  Name a single Flyer since 1990 who was "due" for a big contract where the team failed to pay them the money and they went on to make the Flyers regret it.  Go ahead.  I am going to wait.

The truth is exactly the opposite:  I can name dozens of players the Flyers paid, because they thought they needed a player, then regretted it later.