OccamsRazor Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 44 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Going to have to lose a lot of games to get him. It's what Cal Peterson was for... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: It's what Cal Peterson was for... Torts didn't get the memo, that Peterson was supposed to be the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 7 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: No, @SCFlyguyis like the rest of us who are tired of the same old dog and pony show the Flyers trot out every year and then try to sell it as 'see we're committed' and the only thing they commit to is mediocrity. They won't do a real rebuild. They refuse to take the lumps and try to cheat the rebuild process. And to make matters worse, they keep going on about culture and identity as being the core to a Flyers rebuild. It's insanity over and over and over. They continually make the same mistakes, but expect it will be different. Even Jones admitted that the rebuild statement was for the fans, but in the locker room, he said the rebuild was BS. Enough said. Unfortunately, this is all true. Same old same old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: Going to have to lose a lot of games to get him. At the end of this deadline, they "should have enough ammo for #7-10ish...go get your guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, FD19372 said: Torts didn't get the memo, that Peterson was supposed to be the starter. Well there was this Other Guy... #hewhoshallnotbenamed Edited March 3 by radoran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 3 hours ago, flyercanuck said: management also thinks they're closer, When I said “closer than most people think” I meant fans not management. What Jones/Briere are thinking we’ll get a better idea at the TD. 3 hours ago, flyercanuck said: But all they're closer to is being mediocre for the rest of our lives. I dunno man after a year of the Prez and the GM both saying over and over, and saying explicitly “we are not doing that anymore” (in so many words) how can you still be convinced of the opposite? Jones’ comments about the rebuild notwithstanding - since frankly I’m not sure what the hell he was talking about or what point he was try to make - we simply have to wait and see what happens, not just at the TD but this summer. If Briere is a net buyer we’ll know he’s been fullofshit the entire time. If he sells and brings back future assets to build on…will that convince you these managers are not Clarke/Homer clones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 6 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: Got to admit you lost me on this one, you and @BobbyClarkeFan16 both. You’re saying the managers are pretending to the players that there’s no rebuild happening? Appeasing the fans is one thing. Rebuild retool whatever who cares it’s the actions that matter. But you guys think management is deceiving the players about their intentions this year, and their plans going forward? I’m sure I’m reading you wrong but I really don’t get it. I think you missed the point I was trying to make. The players are playing to win. They aren't waiting for some boy to save them. The attitude I've seen seems to say they think they're good enough. I think Jonesy remembers that from his playing days. I think that's what he's saying. I don't think he's lying to anyone about anything. Now, he could be withholding information. I don't view that as the same. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: I think you missed the point I was trying to make. The players are playing to win. They aren't waiting for some boy to save them. The attitude I've seen seems to say they think they're good enough. I think Jonesy remembers that from his playing days. I think that's what he's saying. I don't think he's lying to anyone about anything. Now, he could be withholding information. I don't view that as the same. The only way the Flyers can truly tank is to convert talent into other assets, like trading away half your defense for instance. They have a strict disciplinary coach who will not accept half hearted effort. The players would not fall in line with a tank anyways, they are competitors who have a rep to uphold. Its management's decision to deplete the talent pool enough that they can't swim. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, mojo1917 said: I think you missed the point I was trying to make. The players are playing to win. They aren't waiting for some boy to save them. The attitude I've seen seems to say they think they're good enough. I think Jonesy remembers that from his playing days. I think that's what he's saying. I don't think he's lying to anyone about anything. Now, he could be withholding information. I don't view that as the same. thanks I’m 95% there now…understanding-wise. But what is “some boy to save them” referring to? Was that part of Jones’ comments or …. ok so I’m only 75% of the way lol… Anyway at least now I got the gist of his comments and also what you and @BobbyClarkeFan16 were talking about, though he seems to take a dimmer view of Jones’ comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 3 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: what is “some boy to save them” referring to? Draft pick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 20 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: No, @SCFlyguyis like the rest of us who are tired of the same old dog and pony show the Flyers trot out every year and then try to sell it as 'see we're committed' and the only thing they commit to is mediocrity. They won't do a real rebuild. They refuse to take the lumps and try to cheat the rebuild process. And to make matters worse, they keep going on about culture and identity as being the core to a Flyers rebuild. It's insanity over and over and over. They continually make the same mistakes, but expect it will be different. Even Jones admitted that the rebuild statement was for the fans, but in the locker room, he said the rebuild was BS. Enough said. then dont watch them, what's stopping you? you want this guy and that guy and that doesnt work then what, just keeping losing until you get your way in two decades like how are you going to happy when watching hopeless hockey and not making the playoffs every year? how is that building anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, tucson83 said: then dont watch them, what's stopping you? you want this guy and that guy and that doesnt work then what, just keeping losing until you get your way in two decades like how are you going to happy when watching hopeless hockey and not making the playoffs every year? how is that building anything? You thought Chuck Fletcher (arguably the worst GM in NHL history) was doing a good job. This team has NEVER done a rebuild. Meanwhile, we watch teams with 1st overall picks win cups pretty much every....single.....year. But being a borderline playoff team is the secret? What's the most exciting thing to happen to this franchise in a long time? (other than FIRING Fletcher) Drafting MIchkov? A potential top 2 talent that fell to us due to the Russian factor? Or is it the hope Seeler and Walker both get long term contracts that we'll all hate in a couple of years? Edited March 3 by flyercanuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Couple of questions for anyone. What would be considered a good deal for Sean Walker what would be acceptable? - so two answers for that one. Now apply that question for Nick Seeler. Also, provided a deal is being worked on to trade Ristolainen in the off-season and is realized, which of the two would be the least troubling in your opinion to keep around? I continue to think both UFA players should be sold "high", but is there an offer too low to be considered? Is the team better off with 2nd and 3rd round picks ? If those are the offers? Also while i do admire the team's loyalty to Scott Laughton. The guy has made himself into a valued NHL player. He has stepped into a leadership void since the coaching change, what is the offer that breaks the spell? Everyone seems worried that nothing happens at the TDL, what needs to happen to assuage the fear that we're looking at same old same old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) In the current "trust, but verify" portion of the rebuild, we are in "verify". I'm not "excited to make the playoffs" if it means changing the overall direction of the rebuild. The holes in this roster are glaringly obvious and holding onto 30-year-old journeymen defencemen - at term - doesn't fill any of them. I'm fine watching what happens. Edited March 3 by radoran 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 @radoran I don't mind having another "senior" player in the d-corps to go with Sanhiem. I would mind 2 guys over 30 signed to anything over 2 or 3 years. I wonder too who the FO would target in free agency ? I don't think this group wants to build through the draft exclusively, so which guys would fit their plan in the coming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 minute ago, mojo1917 said: I don't think this group wants to build through the draft exclusively Nor do I. In addition to free agency there's trades. You know what some teams like to get in trades? Draft picks. And expiring contract journeyman defensemen you got for nothing can get you those picks to upgrade into other assets. I just do not get the whole "don't fall in love" line turning into "we're not looking to trade Seels." (To be clear I am totally aware Torts could be blowing smoke here) Calgary got a prospect, 2nd, and conditional 3rd for Tanev. Would having a higher 2nd this year help with a package of a couple 1sts to move up? We may never know if they're really "not looking to trade Seels" #shesabeauty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 28 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I don't mind having another "senior" player in the d-corps to go with Sanhiem. Have you met Rasmus "signed for $5.1m per for three more seasons at age 30" Ristolainen? #fletched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: You thought Chuck Fletcher (arguably the worst GM in NHL history) was doing a good job. This team has NEVER done a rebuild. Meanwhile, we watch teams with 1st overall picks win cups pretty much every....single.....year. But being a borderline playoff team is the secret? What's the most exciting thing to happen to this franchise in a long time? (other than FIRING Fletcher) Drafting MIchkov? A potential top 2 talent that fell to us due to the Russian factor? Or is it the hope Seeler and Walker both get long term contracts that we'll all hate in a couple of years? sabres tanked no playoffs for a decade, oilers tanked for almost 20 years no cups, maple leafs have two number overall no cups, it doesnt work for them, what makes you think it will work for us? Edited March 3 by tucson83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, tucson83 said: sabres tanked no playoffs for a decade, oilers tanked for almost 20 years no cups, maple leafs have two number overall no cups, it doesnt work for them, what makes you think it will work for us? I don't "know" that it will work for us. I DO know the way they've been using for decades doesn't work. I mean 47 years is 47 years, right? And I DO know that about 95% of cup winners over the last 2 decades have a #1 overall pick on their team...which we do not. And yes, there are teams so inept it doesn't get you anywhere even with those picks. The Flyers are right there with them. But I'd rather watch McDavid than Seeler any day. Edited March 3 by flyercanuck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: I'd rather watch McDavid than Seeler any day. hmph! Typical casual fan…only appreciates the goal scorers… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 3 hours ago, radoran said: Have you met Rasmus "signed for $5.1m per for three more seasons at age 30" Ristolainen? #fletched Right, some where in here I said I'm okay with 2 older dudes , that's counting Sanhiem as an old dude. If one of the unholy trent-ity remains I'm not burning the sweet sweatshirt Mrs Mojo bought for me. I won't be happy if after the draft and free agency more than one of Risto, Walker and Seeler remain. RE: draft picks...I never think of the Flyers using picks in trades well. It's been here's a 2nd rounder for this roster player we don't need anything back. The point you made regarding picks is well taken and something l didn't consider. Edited March 3 by mojo1917 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted March 3 Popular Post Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, tucson83 said: sabres tanked no playoffs for a decade, oilers tanked for almost 20 years no cups, maple leafs have two number overall no cups, it doesnt work for them, what makes you think it will work for us? And yet Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Colorado, and Chicago have done it and it's turned out alright. Good management, good drafting, good coaching. The Flyers haven't had that combination of all three and it's safe to say that management has ALWAYS been the issue. And I'll continue to call out the crap this franchise does. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 5 hours ago, flyercanuck said: You thought Chuck Fletcher (arguably the worst GM in NHL history) was doing a good job. This team has NEVER done a rebuild. Meanwhile, we watch teams with 1st overall picks win cups pretty much every....single.....year. But being a borderline playoff team is the secret? What's the most exciting thing to happen to this franchise in a long time? (other than FIRING Fletcher) Drafting MIchkov? A potential top 2 talent that fell to us due to the Russian factor? Or is it the hope Seeler and Walker both get long term contracts that we'll all hate in a couple of years? We will probably hate them much sooner, neither has done a thing to brag about in the NHL, except at 30 as pending UFAs, to have career seasons. We have seen this time and time again. Guaranteed neither of them come close to this season again. We will be paying over 8 million to keep these guys and both are looking for 5 year contracts. We have Drysdale,York and Sanheim as our top three, then you keep these two guys overachieving stiffs, with Risto or Zamula at #6 and 7. So where does that leave Attard ,Andrae and Bonk? There is no reason to keep these guys,especially for 5 years and at the money they want. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 6 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: And yet Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Colorado, and Chicago have done it and it's turned out alright. Good management, good drafting, good coaching. The Flyers haven't had that combination of all three and it's safe to say that management has ALWAYS been the issue. And I'll continue to call out the crap this franchise does. whatever, they are not tanking deal with it. Edited March 4 by tucson83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RonJeremy Posted March 4 Popular Post Share Posted March 4 16 minutes ago, tucson83 said: whatever, they are not tanking deal with it. You don’t have to tank, all we want is for them to be realistic. OK, they keep Seeler and Walker, we make the playoffs and are out in the first round. Now we are stuck with these guys and Risto and you block the young dmen from coming up. You are also on the hook for more money for five more years. So what was really accomplished ? The way you build a team is by trading older guys for picks and using those picks to draft young guys or for trades for young guys, the more picks you have the more ammo you have to make deals. This management better not give us the same old Clarke/Holmgren way of doing things. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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