Sink or Swim Time

[mojo1917]

11 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

just like nobody can prove that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist

What ?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Nobody can prove that the NHL didn't rig the draft in Edmonton's favour just like nobody can prove that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist. So what; it doesn't make it true.

 

 

Hitchens's Razor.

 

My cousin...

[Fuzz]

On 3/18/2024 at 12:31 PM, flyer4ever said:

All the draft picks in the next few drafts assure only one thing. Mediocre. It gets harder every year to find the diamond in the rough. This season of culture building assures more mediocre. Chicago, Anaheim, Montreal will all win a playoff series before the Flyers. Do I respect what the players accomplished this year under Torts, yes of course, but it gets them no closer to the prize. If Briere can somehow package some assets and move up in the draft I would be delighted, but I would be more delighted if he strips the team down to the bare bones. This season is really just more of the same old same old.

   Spot on!   Same old same old. 

[flyerrod]

On 3/18/2024 at 2:22 PM, JR Ewing said:

 

The term is nearly laughably over-used now. Generational talents are the sorts of players who start racking up numbers that nobody has seen in (gasp!) a generation or more. They're the sorts of players who pile up multiple Art Ross, Hart, Lindsays, etc. Patrick Kane has won a Hart, Lindsay and Art Ross and was, as you point out, a sub-par defensive player. Great player who had a great year, but it doesn't add up to Crosby, who has two Art Ross, two Harts and three Lindsays. It's light years away from McDavid who has five Art Ross, four Lindays and three Harts in only eight years.

 

Patrick Kane is a slam-dunk, first ballot of Hall of Famer. Not generational, though.

 

Toews was a huge reason that Kane had the success that he had. He was the defensive side that Kane generally ignored.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Flyers pick up 6 out of 14 available points in the toughest stretch of their season.  It would’ve been nice to see them pick up a couple more.  

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

Flyers pick up 6 out of 14 available points in the toughest stretch of their season.  It would’ve been nice to see them pick up a couple more.  

 

With a better goalie tandem and less injuries at least to Drysdale that may have happened.

 

It is what it is at this point.

[Samifan]

4 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

Flyers pick up 6 out of 14 available points in the toughest stretch of their season.  It would’ve been nice to see them pick up a couple more.  

Points aside, I don’t think any of us can fault the effort and resilience from this team the past 7 games. Previous versions of this team would have gone 0-7. 
 

Let’s just hope they can keep the work ethic and resilience going against the “lesser” teams coming up. 7 of the last 9 against non-playoff teams. 
 

Buckle up 

[mojo1917]

sink or swim time seems to have been tread water and barely keep your mouth out of the water for this bunch.

That was a bunch of good teams in a short period. 

I cannot fault the team's effort they left zero in the tank, they played well enough through the stretch that some of the results feel unjust.

the Panthers game and truly last night vs the Rangers were great efforts.

No moral victories in pro sports though, I hope the young guys seeing the ice in these games can use this experience for the rest of their careers.

Brink and Foerester have been noticeably good in this stretch. Bobby had 4 or 5 really strong shifts against the Rangers in his 12-13 minutes. His offensive instincts are special and he was good on the forecheck. 

Cam York has been pretty damn good in this stretch too. 

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Brink and Foerester have been noticeably good in this stretch. Bobby had 4 or 5 really strong shifts against the Rangers in his 12-13 minutes. His offensive instincts are special and he was good on the forecheck. 

Cam York has been pretty damn good in this stretch too. 

 

Definitely. and some others too who stood out - Tippett of course for the goals, TK for finally getting back to his game ... and your fav and mine Morgan Frost! lol... what can you say the kid deserves praise he's been all over it every night. I don't love seeing him go in alone with 3 defenders stacked on the blue line but he's around 50% or better at getting through and making a play - whereas before he almost never maintained possession.

 

It's getting to the point where his line / whoever he's skating with - they need to keep up with him instead of the other way around. I admit I didn't see that coming...

[RonJeremy]

On 3/21/2024 at 12:13 PM, flyerrod said:

Toews was a huge reason that Kane had the success that he had. He was the defensive side that Kane generally ignored.

Behind every great wingers success is a skilled playmaking center.

[JR Ewing]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

Behind every great wingers success is a skilled playmaking center.

 

I love it when teams other than my own over-pay low calorie wingers after being paired up with a high end centre who brings them career highs. The Sabres pairing Jeff Skinner with Jack Eichel and then laying out a $9M AAV, will never not be funny.

 

My guess is that people around here will think that I just care about stats, but it couldn't be further from the truth. I like to read the numbers because it gives me an understanding of what happened when I can’t watch. It surrounds the player’s upside & downside in some ways.

 

But for me, the sport has always been about one-on-one battles when it comes to serious hockey. Not the hockey you see in January between a top 4 team and one out of the playoffs, but between evenly-matched skill during the Spring. Some refer to it as Darryl Sutter hockey, and I guess that's right, although I didn’t really like him as a HC because he makes his teams play that way all season, so they're gassed come playoffs – but I ramble.

 

When I watch d-men in their own end, I watch who comes out of the corners with the puck. Along the boards, I watch to see which forward gets the puck out over the line when they have the chance; who ties up the guys stick in the slot. Things like that. I love watching the beautiful plays, of course, because the skill makes watching the game fun & exciting. But the trenches are, for me, where games are won and lost once the skill becomes neutralized.

 

I've seen Jeff Skinner score some pretty goals, and that's great, but I'm not sure I ever saw Jeff Skinner come off the boards with the puck when it was contested. To me, that is a problem when people are discussing numbers getting close to 8,9,10, etc million dollars per season.

 

 

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

The Sabres pairing Jeff Skinner with Jack Eichel and then laying out a $9M AAV, will never not be funny.

 

After LOL I thought of the deal Briere made with Owen Tippett this year... made me appreciate it all the more. It could've been another Skinner. To be fair (IIRC) Skinner got his $72mil after the 40-goal season - the only 40-goal season so far. Maybe it's a blessing the Flyers only had Couturier and Frost dealing to Tippett this year.

 

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

Some refer to it as Darryl Sutter hockey,

 

Flyers' fans have renamed it Tortorella hockey this year. It's probably fair but is it a knock? I'm not sure. Can teams sustain their style into the POs? Is the stamina required unrealistic? It's an interesting question. I don't know if there is an answer. So much goes into winning the Cup...

 

 

 

 

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I love it when teams other than my own over-pay low calorie wingers after being paired up with a high end centre who brings them career highs. The Sabres pairing Jeff Skinner with Jack Eichel and then laying out a $9M AAV, will never not be funny.

 

My guess is that people around here will think that I just care about stats, but it couldn't be further from the truth. I like to read the numbers because it gives me an understanding of what happened when I can’t watch. It surrounds the player’s upside & downside in some ways.

 

But for me, the sport has always been about one-on-one battles when it comes to serious hockey. Not the hockey you see in January between a top 4 team and one out of the playoffs, but between evenly-matched skill during the Spring. Some refer to it as Darryl Sutter hockey, and I guess that's right, although I didn’t really like him as a HC because he makes his teams play that way all season, so they're gassed come playoffs – but I ramble.

 

When I watch d-men in their own end, I watch who comes out of the corners with the puck. Along the boards, I watch to see which forward gets the puck out over the line when they have the chance; who ties up the guys stick in the slot. Things like that. I love watching the beautiful plays, of course, because the skill makes watching the game fun & exciting. But the trenches are, for me, where games are won and lost once the skill becomes neutralized.

 

I've seen Jeff Skinner score some pretty goals, and that's great, but I'm not sure I ever saw Jeff Skinner come off the boards with the puck when it was contested. To me, that is a problem when people are discussing numbers getting close to 8,9,10, etc million dollars per season.

 

 

I agree with your assessments  but even if we have the best defense and wingers and win lots of battles we are not coming close to a cup with Scott Laughton as your #1 center. We need to move up in the draft and grab one of those top 2 centers, although we might have to wait another year for them to be ready. I don’t see many teams looking to unload first and second line centers. The only one I’m aware of is Zegras, but I’m not sure if he is the answer. York has really emerged ,Attard and Ginning look solid, Zamula too, Bonk is kicking ass and  Andrae is almost ready. We have too many dmen , we may have to trade Drysdale and our pick to move up. Or else Konecny since we are stacked on right wing and our top prospect Michkov is also a right wing. Center is our top priority 

[JR Ewing]

10 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

After LOL I thought of the deal Briere made with Owen Tippett this year... made me appreciate it all the more. It could've been another Skinner. To be fair (IIRC) Skinner got his $72mil after the 40-goal season - the only 40-goal season so far. Maybe it's a blessing the Flyers only had Couturier and Frost dealing to Tippett this year.

 

Owen Tippett is an offense-first guy who is below average defensively, and he's still light years better than Skinner, who has no interest or ability to help on the defensive side of the puck and would rather do just about anything other than dig in the corners. Skinner is overpaid by about $4.5M and Tippett's next contract is right on the money for AAV.

 

I know who'd I rather have every day.

 

10 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Flyers' fans have renamed it Tortorella hockey this year. It's probably fair but is it a knock? I'm not sure. Can teams sustain their style into the POs? Is the stamina required unrealistic? It's an interesting question. I don't know if there is an answer. So much goes into winning the Cup...

 

 

I think the chief difference between them is that Torts generally treats his players with respect while Sutter's players mostly despised him and felt constantly disrespected. Tortorella usually stands up for his players and doesn't air dirty laundry to the media, while Sutter's teams have locked him out of the dressing room rather than be subjected to more of his sh|t.

 

Guys are willing to push themselves for somebody who challenges them, but not so much for coaches who kick players in the back on the bench, constantly kick/throw garbage cans around the room, forbid them to eat on flights if they lose, etc. When Jonathon Huberdeau left the game due to injury, the press was amused when Sutter said he left "to take a ****" but the player and his teammates felt it was disrespectful and belittling of him being hurt. When Jakob Pelletier made his NHL debut, Sutter was dismissive, asking what his number was and that he has a long way to go as a player, which was another point against him with Flames players.

 

Sutter is a throwback to the days when coaches were allowed to abuse players as they wished, and I've never heard that Tortorella pulls any of that kind of crap. It's just one player after another who has say that's demanding but fair, and that he always sticks up for them.

 

[Digityman]

Bruins vs Flyers in the first round is a real possibility with the way the Caps are playing.  

 

Current playoff matchups
Eastern Conference

A1 Boston Bruins vs. WC1 Tampa Bay Lightning
A2 Florida Panthers vs. A3 Toronto Maple Leafs
M1 New York Rangers vs. WC2 Washington Capitals
M2 Carolina Hurricanes vs. M3 Philadelphia Flyers

Western Conference

C1 Dallas Stars vs. WC2 Vegas Golden Knights
C2 Colorado Avalanche vs. C3 Winnipeg Jets
P1 Vancouver Canucks vs. WC1 Nashville Predators
P2 Edmonton Oilers vs. P3 Los Angeles Kings

[mojo1917]

@Digityman

I don't know man the Caps schedule has some high-powered opponents left, they get Boston twice, the Leafs, Carolina, I don't see them running the table. 

In fact, they'll be lucky to go .500 over their next 10.

 

I don't think they're catching the Flyers unless the Flyers really stumble. I think the Flyers can play .500 ball the rest of the way and still keep their spot.

 

[Digityman]

1-0 Habs..lol

Just kidding.  Good point about the Caps upcoming schedule. I didn't look at that. 

[OccamsRazor]

19 hours ago, Digityman said:

Bruins vs Flyers in the first round is a real possibility with the way the Caps are playing.  

 

Current playoff matchups
Eastern Conference

A1 Boston Bruins vs. WC1 Tampa Bay Lightning
A2 Florida Panthers vs. A3 Toronto Maple Leafs
M1 New York Rangers vs. WC2 Washington Capitals
M2 Carolina Hurricanes vs. M3 Philadelphia Flyers

Western Conference

C1 Dallas Stars vs. WC2 Vegas Golden Knights
C2 Colorado Avalanche vs. C3 Winnipeg Jets
P1 Vancouver Canucks vs. WC1 Nashville Predators
P2 Edmonton Oilers vs. P3 Los Angeles Kings

 

The match up is basically chose your poison for the Flyers.

 

With their lack of a PP they only chance is hell they have vs any of those teams is for Ersson/Fedotov to stand on their heads and hold them in a series.

 

Only chance because they lack scoring power as we just seen vs Montreal.

[mojo1917]

@Digityman

@OccamsRazor

 

A podcast I listen to had a question, if you could do the '19 draft over, would you as the Flyers take Cole Caufield or Cam York?

I thought this was an interesting question and until this season I felt overwhelmingly weighted toward wanting to have drafted Caufield.

Today I'm feeling pretty good about the Flyers pick. 

Also, the potential butterfly effect of having a "scorer" in the system would have had on the Giroux trade, the Michkov draft and the Foerster pick.

 

The Flyers still need a few those wizards that can make something out of nothing ala Bread, Pasta, MacKinnon, and McDavid.

However, the solid play of Attard and Ginning makes me think our defensive corps could be the strength of the team for years to come.

The Flyers may not have that true # 1 but if they have 3 2's and 4 3s...that's a lot of quality for the hardest position to play in the game.

Most guys are on good contracts (Risto excluded) It could be the group the lifts the team. 

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@Digityman

@OccamsRazor

 

A podcast I listen to had a question, if you could do the '19 draft over, would you as the Flyers take Cole Caufield or Cam York?

I thought this was an interesting question and until this season I felt overwhelmingly weighted toward wanting to have drafted Caufield.

Today I'm feeling pretty good about the Flyers pick. 

Also, the potential butterfly effect of having a "scorer" in the system would have had on the Giroux trade, the Michkov draft and the Foerster pick.

 

The Flyers still need a few those wizards that can make something out of nothing ala Bread, Pasta, MacKinnon, and McDavid.

However, the solid play of Attard and Ginning makes me think our defensive corps could be the strength of the team for years to come.

The Flyers may not have that true # 1 but if they have 3 2's and 4 3s...that's a lot of quality for the hardest position to play in the game.

Most guys are on good contracts (Risto excluded) It could be the group the lifts the team. 

 

Forwards have quicker impacts for sure and defensemen take longer to develop but we are seeing York growing into a #1 right before our eyes he keeps getting better and better and he just turned 23 in January so I am totally happy with it because I know they added Brink out of thar too could is still developing.

 

So to me it is easier to find a Caulfield and harder to find a York.

 

So I am happy with the pick.

 

I think is going to play a vital role in eventually bringing a Cup to Philly in the next 5 years I would feel that way about a small winger.

 

Some will say this is biased and hey maybe it is that is fine doesn't change how I feel.

[SCFlyguy]

Good thing Scott Laughton and Nick Seeler are still here to steady the ship instead of 2-3 more picks in upcoming drafts.

[mojo1917]

 

Letting guys develop in the A or wherever is better than rushing them to the bigs.

See: Drysdale,  Jamie.

 

The pick brought back (Laughton especially) while there is still term on his  contract, is how valuable?

Seeler is still cheap and if he turns back to a frog or pumpkin can be jettisoned when the team is seriously ready to compete.

 

This group was never going for a full tear down. They watched the other tenant in the building do that for 5 years, now 8 years later that tenant is no closer to winning a championship than they were when "the process" started. 

There is Michkov in the wings. Some guys on this team could be something,  there are many picks in the first two rounds of the next two drafts. They can be used however- there is cap space...

 

It's not going the way some want it to go, but I don't look at this group as a finished product. I expect parts to be moving in the off season. 

I expect players I like will be elsewhere in the next 2 seasons. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31 by mojo1917

[SCFlyguy]

26 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

This group was never going for a full tear down.

I'm not saying it is surprising they didn't go for a full tear down.  In fact, I'm saying it was obvious all along, despite the corporate rhetoric.  So get ready for a lot of seasons going forward like the ones we've seen the last 20 years.

 

Basketball and Hockey aren't comparable from a building standpoint, but the Sixers problem wasn't the teardown, it was what they did after they already built it back up.  Choosing Harris over Butler and the Mikal Bridges trades were very bad decisions that squandered the remaining resources they had from the teardown.

[mojo1917]

8 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Choosing Harris over Butler and the Mikal Bridges 

Would definitely like a do-over on Jimmy Buckets.

[NHL HHOF]

Detroit can still knock out Philadelphia to make the playoffs.