radoran Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 BTW, I have a tendancy to agree with you on the Blues potentially having the answer to our goalie problems. Either one would not cost the world, and the cap hit is right....one cavet, because I owned both of them in fantasy hockey the past few years (esp with Elliott).....when they are on, they are great....when they stink....they really stink...AND that is behind a Hitch defense first philosophy....just say'in. Not many people know that Elliott, as a part time starter 2 years ago, lead the NHL in shut outs with 10.....that might be where I'd start look'in....It is actually why I prefer Halak - he did at least show something with the Habs (who weren't exactly a "defense first" team at the time). For some reason, STL has gone with Elliott in B2B playoff seasons. I am aware there are other issues with Halak.I just can't see the Blues keeping both.If they don't go the Bernier route, I can certainly see them riding Bryz next season and making a decision on a goalie to target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Elliott, as a part time starter 2 years ago, lead the NHL in shut outs with 10.....that might be where I'd start look'in.I was wondering how long it would take you to chime in about Elliott since he was kind of taking a beating on here.I personally like Elliott, but he does tend to be very hot or very cold with little in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Last season was 50% injury, 35% bryzgalov, 15% dcorps.I agree. I'm not sure what percentage I'd give it, but I think I would add "X% forwards doing a piss poor job of backchecking" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Bryzgalov is 6'3" ... Just saying is all.And when shots are fired at the top half of the net, Bryzgalov ducks to get down to 5'9" so he doesn't make the save. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 @jammer2@azizI agree with Jammer on this one about the Kings' defense. They may not be an entire all-star roster, but I thought in the Cup run they played every but as stellar as Quick. They kept shots out if the danger areas and just shadowed EVERYTHING that tried getting inside the face off dots. Quick did all the rest, no doubt, but still very commendable. And as for Scuderi... He's been the go to shutdown D man in TWO Cup winning teams now... That's not just luck... The guy is excellent at all but eliminating the opponent's top lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) @Polaris922Well, obviously, there's no right or wrong, all just opinions. I can't shake the feeling that when a goalie who makes 30 crazy ridiculous highlight reel saves in a 20 game playoff run, most of them after having been left completely and totally out to dry while his dmen stood around looking confused..... That's 30 goals against with a lesser goalie in net.I'm pulling that number out of my butt, of course. Still. From what I watched, LA's team GAA goes up by 1.50 if quick doesn't play like that. A defence can look really impressive when none of their mistakes end up in the net. I mean, a .946sv%. I thought their D was rather low end last spring. Quick kept pucks out of the net by himself.Again, imo. Edited June 21, 2013 by aziz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmdodgesrt4 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Well the laffs raised it to their 1st and a prospect apparently. I say no to anything higher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @Polaris922Well, obviously, there's no right or wrong, all just opinions. I can't shake the feeling that when a goalie who makes 30 crazy ridiculous highlight reel saves in a 20 game playoff run, most of them after having been left completely and totally out to dry while his dmen stood around looking confused..... That's 30 goals against with a lesser goalie in net.I'm pulling that number out of my butt, of course. Still. From what I watched, LA's team GAA goes up by 1.50 if quick doesn't play like that. A defence can look really impressive when none of their mistakes end up in the net. I mean, a .946sv%. I thought their D was rather low end last spring. Quick kept pucks out of the net by himself.Again, imo.I agree Quick played great! No argument there. But I felt the D played great too is all. They really pulled it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @aziz I agree with you on one thing, no matter how well I thought the Kings defense played during their cup run, the Kings would not have won without the heroics of Quick. You simply could not have inserted another goalie and got the same result, many of his saves were out of this world spectacular and breathtaking. I do think the Kings, for the most part really, really limited the second shots, so that helped out Quick a lot. Some of those saves he was pulling off though, I doubt 99% of the goalies in the league could have duplicated....he was on fire during that run. I like the fact you think Bernier could perform as well with a lesser defense...makes me more curious as to the asking price. If I've learned anything over the years, you know your goalie skill sets quite well....being a former goalie and all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) I like the fact you think Bernier could perform as well with a lesser defense...makes me more curious as to the asking price.No to a first round pick for him i will a 2nd player...depends on who that may be.How will he react to being a backup again to Mason like WJC 07-08 team.....do you know if they have a good relationship...are they friends or hate each other...either way can't be a worse teammate than Bryz...so it seems.Speaking of that Jr team whatever happened to Logan Pyett..he's like the only guy off that team that isn't in the NHL.Edit:I'm just saying he ain't big but hell he put up a lot of points in the A never seen him up in the NHL, yeah i know it's the A but the points he put up Flyers haven't even had that from any of their guys.And he's a RH shot a Krug type.Ok he's headed to the KHL...ok...nevermind.http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=9344 Edited June 22, 2013 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @OccamsRazor Not to sure how Mason and Bernier got along, but like you said, anyone would be a better teammate than Bryz the siv. As far as Logan goes, I believe he's a Ranger prospect now, played for the Connecticut Whale last year and had a decent season offensively....didn't know this...had to look it up...ha ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I believe he's a Ranger prospect now,Yeah just looking at his number (and they are just numbers) had we had those on the Phantoms he would have been like an all star several years in a row...Phantoms just sent a guy that was -27 to the all star game (Manning)...i think he's heading to the K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terp Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Pursuing Bernier at all at this juncture is more Flyers dysfunction, assuming the rumors are true (and they may not be). If you are Homer, why do you bring in Mason, who is a bit of a head case, allow him to show some promise and then bring in Bernier to essentially compete for the same role as future #1? It doesn't sound healthy and it also doesn't sound like the Flyers to pay a big price to start the season with two young goaltenders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeZel25 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) Someone needs to remind me again of what Bernier has done in the NHL. 54 games started in 6 years and were supposed to give up Couturier? Hell no! He might be talented but we already have a guy , (Mason), that has proven the same thing as Bernier, NOTHING. He's as talented or more than Bernier AND it wont cost us anything to get him. I'd rather get a guy like Emery and let Mason and Emery fight it out instead of trading Read or Couturier for ANOTHER GOALIE. DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE...Head spins around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited June 22, 2013 by twpguy 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I don't get the asking price for a backup goalie. I really don't.Okay, so Bernier might be good. We don't know that because he's never shouldered the load. But this isn't even about that. When was the last time you saw first round picks or high level prospects bantered about for a backup goalie? Or even a starting goalie?There just typically isn't that big a market for goalies and usually in trades it's a 2nd-6th round pick or a mid-level prospect or two. The packages being thrown around for this backup goalie are absurd. I would pass and not think twice.Sign an Emery or Theodore or Smith or someone for $2-$3M for one year and then go back to the FA market next year. It buys you a season to see what Mason really is. Maybe you trade for Bernier and Mason plays lights out and then you have another problem and have lost Read or Coots or Jake or whomever in the process. Or maybe you realize that Mason flamed out 4 years ago and you need to be looking for a bonafide starter rather than someone to just compete. I would not mortgage the house for Bernier. If he makes it to UFA, then tender a qualifying offer and see what shakes out if you really want him, but I don't trade a roster player and I don't give up a first round draft pick.This is simply foolishness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Someone needs to remind me again of what Bernier has done in the NHL. 54 games started in 6 years and were supposed to give up Couturier? Hell no! He might be talented but we already have a guy , (Mason), that has proven the same thing as Bernier, NOTHING. He's as talented or more than Bernier AND it wont cost us anything to get him. I'd rather get a guy like Emery and let Mason and Emery fight it out instead of trading Read or Couturier for ANOTHER GOALIE. DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE...Head spins around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Great post. Completely agree. And for me it's nothing against Bernier. He may be good. He may not be. I just don't take that risk when there are other very real needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Someone needs to remind me again of what Bernier has done in the NHL. 54 games started in 6 years and were supposed to give up Couturier? Hell no! He might be talented but we already have a guy , (Mason), that has proven the same thing as Bernier, NOTHING. He's as talented or more than Bernier AND it wont cost us anything to get him. I'd rather get a guy like Emery and let Mason and Emery fight it out instead of trading Read or Couturier for ANOTHER GOALIE. DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE...Head spins around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd have no problem giving Bernier a shot at the right price. Couturier is NOT the right price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygrump Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I don't get the asking price for a backup goalie. I really don't.Okay, so Bernier might be good. We don't know that because he's never shouldered the load. But this isn't even about that. When was the last time you saw first round picks or high level prospects bantered about for a backup goalie? Or even a starting goalie?There just typically isn't that big a market for goalies and usually in trades it's a 2nd-6th round pick or a mid-level prospect or two. The packages being thrown around for this backup goalie are absurd. I would pass and not think twice.Sign an Emery or Theodore or Smith or someone for $2-$3M for one year and then go back to the FA market next year. It buys you a season to see what Mason really is. Maybe you trade for Bernier and Mason plays lights out and then you have another problem and have lost Read or Coots or Jake or whomever in the process. Or maybe you realize that Mason flamed out 4 years ago and you need to be looking for a bonafide starter rather than someone to just compete. I would not mortgage the house for Bernier. If he makes it to UFA, then tender a qualifying offer and see what shakes out if you really want him, but I don't trade a roster player and I don't give up a first round draft pick.This is simply foolishness.The part that gets me is why anyone is upping their offer for a guy he Kings have to trade before July 5th who is an unproven backup goalie. He might have high value to other teams but the Kings have to trade him. I would put the offer I'm most comfortable with out there and let it go. Why on earth would Toronto offer a first and a prospect. I'd call that bluff. It might not be one but no way we'd add pick 11 in a Bernier deal or Jake. That's insanity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 The part that gets me is why anyone is upping their offer for a guy he Kings have to trade before July 5th who is an unproven backup goalie. He might have high value to other teams but the Kings have to trade him.I would put the offer I'm most comfortable with out there and let it go. Why on earth would Toronto offer a first and a prospect. I'd call that bluff. It might not be one but no way we'd add pick 11 in a Bernier deal or Jake. That's insanity. Ya, the Kings HAVE to deal him. Not sure why Toronto needs him when they have Reimer. And a first and a prospect? Maybe in another draft, but not this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygrump Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Ya, the Kings HAVE to deal him. Not sure why Toronto needs him when they have Reimer. And a first and a prospect? Maybe in another draft, but not this one.I can see Toronto being that foolish since they are the only team dumber than the Flyers when it comes to this stuff but it certainly doesn't make any sense. You'd think Toronto would have learned their lesson with Kessel and Rask trades. But then again the Flyers haven't learned either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @jammer2 - I agree, this is why I'd be reluctant to trade a key roster player for Bernier. I think he's good, but being a backup behind a defense oriented team in LA is a lot different than being the starter behind Laviolette's run and gun in Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @ruxpin - Varlamov to the Avs for a 1st. Just sayin... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Wouldn't surprise me at all if Couturier's name is being floated to drive up the price from Tronno or Minnesota.Minny's allegedly trying to keep Backstrom, but with Harding's questionability and Backstrom 35+, they might be looking for a more long-term solution.Trying to explain/predict/understand why Tronno does what it does is a fool's errand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @ruxpin - Varlamov to the Avs for a 1st. Just sayin...Overpayment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 @JackStraw. Good point. Forgot about that one but I still don't think it happens all that often. I'll add to what @doom88 said with RIDICULOUS overpayment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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