Thoughts in Emery, Giroux and Vinny Deals

[King Knut]

I have none. My

Mind is blown.

Obviously someone's getting moved. Maybe two D men.

Can't be Hartnell because they don't have enough wingers to begin with.

This just gets more and more interesting. It's always entertaining.

[jammer2]

@King Knut Ozzy said it best "we're going off the rails on the crazy train" ....more commenly known as Flyers hockey.

Edited July 6, 2013 by jammer2

[Phillygrump]

By the way Pinocchio definitely reads this site. I'm almost sure of it. He made some comments on twitter before speculating some ideas that originated here and he made a comment about the reactions on these forums via twitter as well.

[AndyS]

The G deal doesn't hit the cap until next season . . .when the cap will be going up quite a bit and Kimmo will be off the books.

No worries.

Mez will be gone one way or another. Coburn stays. (If they were going to trade Coburn it would have been on or before draft day.)

[Howie58]

Greetings:

We enter the season with a significant upgrade in goal. Our corps of young forwards will hopefully go pretty much unscathed and Vinny may be a stabilizing mentor. I think the real question now is D. Will we have a quarterback on the PP? Who puts up big minutes if Coburn is dealt? Are the positive flashes we saw with Gustafson and Lauridsen an appetizer or a tease?

Stay tuned....

Howie

[Samifan]

Can't be Hartnell because they don't have enough wingers to begin with.

Hartnell won't waive his NMC plus I am not sure what GM would want to take on his cap hit.

[flyerrod]

@King Knut

The only player I see leaving the Flyers at this point is Mezsaros and that is not due to his play but due to his injury problems. I absolutely love the Emery signing. That will mean there is actually a real competition for who is going to be the starting goalie. The Flyers gave Ray Emery a chance to come back into the NHL when no one else would and helped him escape Russia. I think that might also be a factor in his signing with the Flyers. Giroux's cap hit will have no affect as the cap is projected to go up as much as 10 million after next season and the Flyers will be shedding Kimmo's 6 mil cap hit. With the exception of the Streit signing (which I only consider bad because of contract length), the Flyers have done a pretty solid job of addressing some of their biggest issues. I look for Vinny to come in and be a second line center helping Giroux with some of the pressure of being the go to guy. Teams are going to have basically 2 lines to play against that would be number one lines on EVERY team in the NHL. Maybe it is my O&B glasses but I see this team being an absolute threat to win the cup in the years going forward. Other than his proclivity for the contract lengths and NMC's, I think Homer has done an excellent job this off season. He improved every facet of the the team with the biggest being the head case goalie being gone.

Edited July 6, 2013 by flyerrod

[Jmdodgesrt4]

With the rumor that gagne is soon to resign with the flyers I'm trying to figure out the forward lines. Talk about four lines capable of scoring !

[flyercanuck]

The Emery signing was a good deal for Philly. If he plays well he'll earn a bigger payday. If he doesn't he's gone, no harm no foul. I honestly don't get the plus of this for Emery, unless he just wants to start. If that's it, good on him.

I like the LeCavalier contract as much as I liked the Briere, Pronger and Bryzgalov ones. And so will everyone else in years 4 and 5.

Girouxs- not a big fan of contracts that long. I guess that's the way the league is going (thanks in part, and a big one, to Homers stupidity) I also think he's overpaid. If he's getting 8 years, I felt somewhere in the $7- 7.5 area was plenty. Giroux is very good. But he's not a superstar. Homer pays for potential, he's got to stop doing that.

[Phillygrump]

I'm happy with most of the contracts. I'm kind of ok with the Vinny deal because I see what other teams are giving out to some of these players like Filpulla and Clowe and Briere.

The one I still don't understand is the Streit contract. That guy will be 40 and counting 5.25 against the cap.

[TimKerrFan12]

I am still not freaked out by any of the contracts....not my money ...but people are being awful hard on Streit. I am not that worried. Who's to say he won't stay a productive player until he is 40. Others have played until 40 or later and I haven't heard the concern from other teams fans about those players. I am very happy about getting Morin and Hagg. I am a very happy Flyers fan right now.

[aziz]

<br />I like the LeCavalier contract as much as I liked the Briere, Pronger and Bryzgalov ones. And so will everyone else in years 4 and 5.<br />

thing is, that will be years 4 and 5. in years 4 and 5 of the briere, pronger, and bryzgalov deals, there were (would have been) 4 and 3 years left to go, 3 and 2 years to go, and 4 and 5 years left, respectively. the deals started started to become unbalanced but there was still a ton of time left. with lecavalier, it'll be almost over. 1 season and no seasons, at that point. for right now, I like his ability to cap hit ratio. by the time that is no longer the case, it'll almost be past tense. the deal is too long, but only by a bit.

[King Knut]

The only contract that freaks me out a little is g's because 8 million is a friggin lot for the guy. He's great, but 8 million is a ton.

I hadn't heard the cap is expected to go up a full ten million. That's crazy. Why drop it 10 million just to raise it back up the next year... If not to specifically "force tha hands" of GM's who signed these big long 15 year deals?

Emery is a brilliant deal. Even Vinny looks smart (though I'm still unclear if it counts as an over 35 contract or not).

At this point for me it's all about trading Mezaros-who wouldn't be bad to have around if he can actually play.

If they do dump coby, they need to get some actual return for him because he is goin to be valuable again this year in ways he wasn't able to be last year. Prospects, draft picks, something very worthwhile but cheap.

Edited July 6, 2013 by King Knut

[aziz]

<br />I hadn't heard the cap is expected to go up a full ten million. That's crazy. Why drop it 10 million just to raise it back up the next year...<br />

it was decoupled from revenue for one season, this one upcoming, and then is figured by revenue the season after. so, artificially low and then snaps back.

Even Vinny looks smart (though I'm still unclear if it counts as an over 35 contract or not).

it isn't. he's 33. it is decided by how old the guy is when the contract goes into effect.

[radoran]

I hadn't heard the cap is expected to go up a full ten million. That's crazy. Why drop it 10 million just to raise it back up the next year... If not to specifically "force tha hands" of GM's who signed these big long 15 year deals?

You don't take seriously the idea that they lost another half of a season of hockey because of "economic problems fundamental to the game" do you?

Not that there aren't economic problems fundamental to the game, it's just that most of them own National Hockey League franchises.

[doom88]

10 million US dollars times 30 teams is 300 million US dollars. There's your reason right there.

[flyercanuck]

I am still not freaked out by any of the contracts....not my money ...but people are being awful hard on Streit. I am not that worried. Who's to say he won't stay a productive player until he is 40. Others have played until 40 or later and I haven't heard the concern from other teams fans about those players. I am very happy about getting Morin and Hagg. I am a very happy Flyers fan right now.

Sure. But I heard the same thing about Briere. How'd that work out? Pronger. How'd that work out? Bryzgalov? How'd that work out?

[Mad Dog]

Sure. But I heard the same thing about Briere. How'd that work out? Pronger. How'd that work out? Bryzgalov? How'd that work out?

In fairness, Pronger *was* working out until a freak injury he suffered. You can't plan for those sorts of things.

[flyercanuck]

@Mad Dog

No, but when a player is going into an over 35 contract (and your gm doesn't even know) who's played a very physical game for 17 years in the NHL AND more going back to his junior days, you might think his body is going to start breaking down. So maybe it's not a great idea to sign that type of player to a SEVEN year deal? Brieres contract looked fine for a few years. The problem is, he wasn't worth anywhere near that money for the last THREE. Bryz looked fine until he got on the ice.

Edited July 6, 2013 by flyercanuck

[aziz]

<br />Sure. But I heard the same thing about Briere. How'd that work out? Pronger. How'd that work out? Bryzgalov? How'd that work out?<br />

ok, pronger, freak thing. that could happen to literally anyone. yeah, he has taken a beating over his long career, but that beating isn't what ended things. it was a stick in the eye. that could happen to Giroux opening night in October. I can't hold that against anyone.

the other two, bryzgalov and briere....there is a big difference between them and streit: they were bad signings from the start. Briere was signed (and paid) to be a productive number 1 center, and he wasn't that. from day 1, he wasn't that. it was a disappointing signing from the start, because he was brought in to do something he wasn't capable of doing, never mind getting older and losing his edge. bryzgalov, same thing, though worse. bryzgalov was brought in (and paid) to be an elite #1 goaltender, and he wasn't that. from day 1, he wasn't that. and again, it was a disappointing signing from the start, because he was brought in to do something he wasn't capable of doing, never mind getting older and losing his edge.

streit was brought in to be a 2/3 dman who will provide offensive punch that the flyers' blueline has been missing. he will do that, I have no doubt. this will be a good deal, for what it is, at the start. it will get less good as he ages, but at least it will pay off initially. so, I guess my point is, the signing is in a different arena than briere or bryzgalov. the other thing, same as I said earlier with lecavalier, by the time the difference in his production and salary grows, the contract will almost be over. as opposed to bryzgalov and briere. and pronger, for that matter. 4 years is too much, but worst case and streit loses a step after year 2 or 3, the deal will be winding down anyway. we won't be looking at 4+ years of overpaid old man.

i'm not a big fan of the deal, mind you, but it isn't the same thing as those others. the term isn't good, but it isn't completely ludicrous. the salary is market value for the skillset. it's a matter of opinion as to whether the skillset is one that should actually be coveted (I don't think it should be), but that is a different topic.

[phlfly]

A good analysis

[OccamsRazor]

A good analysis

thanks....Can-ah-deens loves how that voice says Canadians very funny!

[OccamsRazor]

Good read on everything...enjoy!

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/7/6/4496438/flyers-roster-breakdown-2013-nhl-free-agency

I feel their is still work to do....

[flyercanuck]

ok, pronger, freak thing. that could happen to literally anyone. yeah, he has taken a beating over his long career, but that beating isn't what ended things. it was a stick in the eye. that could happen to Giroux opening night in October. I can't hold that against anyone.

the other two, bryzgalov and briere....there is a big difference between them and streit: they were bad signings from the start. Briere was signed (and paid) to be a productive number 1 center, and he wasn't that. from day 1, he wasn't that. it was a disappointing signing from the start, because he was brought in to do something he wasn't capable of doing, never mind getting older and losing his edge. bryzgalov, same thing, though worse. bryzgalov was brought in (and paid) to be an elite #1 goaltender, and he wasn't that. from day 1, he wasn't that. and again, it was a disappointing signing from the start, because he was brought in to do something he wasn't capable of doing, never mind getting older and losing his edge.

streit was brought in to be a 2/3 dman who will provide offensive punch that the flyers' blueline has been missing. he will do that, I have no doubt. this will be a good deal, for what it is, at the start. it will get less good as he ages, but at least it will pay off initially. so, I guess my point is, the signing is in a different arena than briere or bryzgalov. the other thing, same as I said earlier with lecavalier, by the time the difference in his production and salary grows, the contract will almost be over. as opposed to bryzgalov and briere. and pronger, for that matter. 4 years is too much, but worst case and streit loses a step after year 2 or 3, the deal will be winding down anyway. we won't be looking at 4+ years of overpaid old man.

i'm not a big fan of the deal, mind you, but it isn't the same thing as those others. the term isn't good, but it isn't completely ludicrous. the salary is market value for the skillset. it's a matter of opinion as to whether the skillset is one that should actually be coveted (I don't think it should be), but that is a different topic.

Anyone who doesn't see the ridiculousness of buying out 2 players you signed longterm in their 30s only to give that money to 2 more players in their 30s (one of whom was bought out of his contract) can only be a Flyer fan used to watching the past 2 gms do this for decades with zero cups to show for the effort and thinking THIS is the way to do it.

It doesn't work!

[aziz]

<br />Anyone who doesn't see the ridiculousness of buying out 2 players you signed longterm in their 30s only to give that money to 2 more players in their 30s (one of whom was bought out of his contract) can only be a Flyer fan used to watching the past 2 gms do this for decades with zero cups to show for the effort and thinking THIS is the way to do it.<br /><br />It doesn't work! <br />

why? which part of that doesn't work? is it the signing of 2 new players in their 30s? as in, alfredsson and Weiss in Detroit? what about iginla in boston? did the penguins just make an embarrassing mistake bringing scuderi back?

I understand reacting to the...symbolism of it all. buy out two terrible contracts that were way more expensive than the talent they retained, sign two more contracts that are likely one day to also be way more expensive than they are worth. I get it. but in the short term, the team is likely better off for the moves, and in the medium term the cap hits are not completely ludicrous, and happily, there really is no long term, as the deals are only for 4 years. as opposed to the deals you are comparing them to, which were overpriced from the start, and twice as long as the ones we are talking about now.