canoli Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It's a solid deal, whether he shows some offensive flair and plays 2nd line, or settles into a defensive role and secures the 3rd line. exactly what I thought when I heard the news - regardless how he pans out this is good for the Flyers. I wonder how Hakstol will use him this coming season, conservatively as a shutdown center or will he try to develop his offensive side? It's going to be fun to watch; I know from hearing the interviews that Couturier wants more O-zone starts and though I never heard him say it I'm sure he'd appreciate a few shifts/game where he's not going up against the top line. I don't believe in handing out a 6 year contract to a guy that has trouble skating (there ya go...I said it), has had trouble scoring, and doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body. I think he's been plenty aggressive; you don't succeed as a shutdown center w/out winning a ton of battles. If he's given the opportunity to conserve some energy for offense he may surprise a lot of fans by how many points he puts up. I won't be one of them But I doubt he'll get many O-zone starts or easier matchups as a rule, or increased PP time, at least not this coming season. I'll be shocked if he's not out there against the top line every shift. Hakstol will play it safe and count on Couturier to prevent goals not score them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 @canoliI hope you're right...I really do. I'd like to get a feel for what everyone thinks his numbers should be to be "worth" his contract. 15g 22a +4 isn't worth $4.33 mil and 5 years in the league will be too late for me to say he's still developing.If he gets 20g 30a and is better than even in the first year and continues to hover around 60 points per season throughout the contract, that's a good contract. No matter what, he has to put up more points to justify the contract. A "specialty" or "role" player can be found for much cheaper than $4.33 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheslot Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 He still needs some skating lessons,like to see him improve his O game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I don't understand why you guys think B. Schenn gets moved because Couturier signed an extension.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The thing that I think is even more important than getting offensive numbers is doing it consistantly. I'd rather have him get a point in every other game than him have 3 or 4 point games with 10 game point droughts in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 This is a pretty good deal money-wise. Longevity-wise, it's hard to say at this moment. I continue comparing him to Brindy as he has a similar game to Iron Rod, although Brindy's offensive game was much more polished when he came to the NHL. But if Brindy proved that you don't have to be a figure skater to succeed in the league, why can't Couturier? And speaking of his offensive game, I am still very much convinced that it's not as bad as it might seem. I just refuse to believe that you score back to back 96 points by accident. I don't care if it was in Drummondville or the Moon, or where else. It tells me he *can* score. He just needs to be utilized n the way where he can use his assets... which, of course, can be said anybody coached by Berube. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I don't understand why you guys think B. Schenn gets moved because Couturier signed an extension.... Agreed. I don't think Schenn's going anywhere. I think Hex and Hak see productivity out of a guy who has been bounced all over the lineup by the two previous coaching staffs and still shows promise. I think Hak will certainly have more patience with Schenn and if he decides to keep the pairing of Schenn and Couturier together, they could really do some damage. I don't think it's any coincedence that the two of them played their best hockey while being paired together. There's definite chemistry there between the two and I think the coaching staff and the GM see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I agree regarding BSchenn: I don't think Couturier's new contract is a kiss-off to Schenn I see it as another sign that the Flyers are committed to their young players (of course at this point they don't really have any other option other than sticking with and developing their own). Obviously Schenn has to earn his own deal but Hextall probably gave some thought as to how Couturier's contract might motivate the younger guys - BSchenn, maybe Gagner too. The money isn't outrageous but the length - the security of playing in the same city (assuming he likes it) and developing your game alongside players and coaches you know - is something most young players value highly I guess. Not that Schenn needs any more motivation considering he's a RFA after this season...if he's ever going to produce consistently this is the year. Gagner too has something to prove. He got his change of scenery: now we get to see whether that's enough to unleash the potential everybody was always talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 If Brayden is going to take a significant leap forward, he will have to step up his game. I want increased work ethic, I'd love to see a lot more desperation in his game. Unless something is added or improved upon in his skill set, I believe his game will stagnate. He's not lazy, I'm not saying that, but a nice "never say die" attitude in regards to puck possession, that is a nice place to start. He needs to step up his game, separate himself from the crowd. I believe the talent is in there, but it's a question of dedication to his chosen profession. He can be an all star if everything goes his way, but his skating will always hold him back from true stardom. Seems to me, the primary way he can increase his scoring totals is to shoot that one timer a thousand times a day, until it is a lethal weapon. Brayden tries the one timer a few times every game, with mixed results. If he is going to become the scorers some think he might be, I believe the key is perfecting the one timer. So far, he has not shown he can get it on net consistently, much less pick a corner with any consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
off_the_post Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I must admit this deal surprised me both in terms of AAS (or whatever the acronym is) and length. Assuming we see more production in the future this could be a very good deal in the long run. However I personally don't like to assume with contracts. I would have rather him have proved it first with another 2 or 3 year bridge deal at $3m per year. If he then turned into a $6m/Selke winner player at the end of that bridge deal so be it but at least you know. IMO assumption contracts don't often pan out. Here is hoping that I am wrong and Hexy is right. At least I don't feel as strongly about this being a mistake as when they signed Lecavalier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 @off_the_post I think the whole point is you take the risk projecting forward, so you don't have to pay top dollar when the player finally arrives at full potential. Definate risk, but there are far more variable to Cooters situation than just point production. For that reason alone, I'm ok with the deal. You know he will always put the team first, always give a GREAT effort....Cooter is the kinda guy you can go to war with...and championship teams have a lot of those. Once you have one, you should do your best to keep him,....keep him in the stable... cause players like that...they do not grow on trees. EDIT...pretend the Flyers eventually grow into a championship squad....Cooter would be the Flyers equivalent of Butch Goring....different skating styles, but the work ethic and defensive minded approach in every zone....they are very close. Just for the record, there is a really good chance the Islanders don't win that first cup without Goring...but he never gets mentioned for his stellar contributions....I can see Cooter taking the same career path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I like the deal because Couturier is a core player. Keeping a core together long-term (especially when they are young or in their primes) is more important to me than trying to gauge the exact market value of a player. The value, for me, is keeping the same 5-6-7 core players together for the long haul. It breeds familiarity, tightness, and a team environment. Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Schenn, Mason. In my mind, that's the current Flyers core. I would add MDZ to that based on how tight he feels with this group, his age, and his love for being on the team. He sounds very committed to the Flyers. I can already imagine something like the following: Gagner/Giroux/VoracekSimmonds/Couturier/SchennWhite/Raffl/ReadVLC/VandeVelde/Bellemare I feel like I am forgetting a player...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I like the deal because Couturier is a core player. Keeping a core together long-term (especially when they are young or in their primes) is more important to me than trying to gauge the exact market value of a player. The value, for me, is keeping the same 5-6-7 core players together for the long haul. It breeds familiarity, tightness, and a team environment. Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Schenn, Mason. In my mind, that's the current Flyers core. I would add MDZ to that based on how tight he feels with this group, his age, and his love for being on the team. He sounds very committed to the Flyers. I can already imagine something like the following: Gagner/Giroux/VoracekSimmonds/Couturier/SchennWhite/Raffl/ReadVLC/VandeVelde/Bellemare I feel like I am forgetting a player...? and dont forget Rinaldos energy!!!! Oh wait... damn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Oh absolutely. I imagine that next year is when you'll see Morin crack the roster full time, for example, after a full year in the AHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Well, from a purely money perspective, the Flyers will have about 18 million under the (current) cap with 14 players under contract next year: Giroux, VLC, Umberger, Couturier, Simmonds, Read, Vandevelde, Bellemare, Streit, MacDonald, MDZ, Schultz, Mason, and Neuvirth. So approximately 2 million per position, probably a bit more assuming the cap increases. I'm not sure it will effect Jake, I think the team will lock him up if the terms make sense. But it will certainly effect whether or not the Schenns, Gagner, Medvedev, Raffl, etc. get new contracts, or whether Streit is moved, or Umberger/VLC is bought out (barring a trade) this is my point and could not agree more... As for signing Jake I dont think this changes anything. Other players are like the Schenns that are due new contracts may have something to worry about. I would like to see Raffl stick with the team but they others you listed are purely a question mark right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 The Couturier extension is a solid move and the lack of a NTC/NMC is refreshing to see. DING! DING! DING! Tell the man what he's won........ ...my point exactly i like it because he is a key forward in this young core....plus no NTC/NMC it makes it even better because at worst case it's a moveable contract...so say if they find they can sign/draft better...but i like Coots and feel it's a good deal for both sides. And it also shows what a steal Simmer is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Oh and he will be 28 by then so technically he is giving up a year of UFA status in the deal to that needs to be weighed into the equation...... ...now they can concentrate on Jake....6-7mill AAV tops should get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Couturier is giving up more than 1 year of UFA. He came in the league at 18, so everything after his 7th NHL season is UFA Yes, that's a good catch. So I have a lot of respect for Sean Couturier. I wish he'd give me a call though. We could talk faceoffs, playoff beards and missing teeth. And I'd make him chase sheep - he needs to work on his foot speed as we all know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunatic Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 There's probably also some forward-looking projections to have cheaper replacement parts like Laughton, Aube-Kubel, Cousins, Leier, etc, on the roster. Not to mention the 1/2 dozen defensemen waiting in the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yes, that's a good catch. So I have a lot of respect for Sean Couturier. I wish he'd give me a call though. We could talk faceoffs, playoff beards and missing teeth. And I'd make him chase sheep - he needs to work on his foot speed as we all know. pods... you might want to give him some skating lessons while you are at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 ...you might want to give him some skating lessons while you are at it... Sean's skating is a victim of his success as a hockey player. He learned to buy time and do all those other little things that he does well (positioning) because he can't skate well. I don't want him to become a figure skater, I just want him to get moving sooner in a different direction, when he needs to without thinking about it. Thus the sheep chasing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Sean's skating is a victim of his success as a hockey player. He learned to buy time and do all those other little things that he does well (positioning) because he can't skate well. I don't want him to become a figure skater, I just want him to get moving sooner in a different direction, when he needs to without thinking about it. Thus the sheep chasing... does this mean you are quite the talent at figure skating?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 does this mean you are quite the talent at figure skating?!?! You're just missing the Viking hat with the horns on it for Pods...... ...never mind Viking helmets never had horns....just put a Flyer jersey on it and you're set... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 does this mean you are quite the talent at figure skating?!?! Well I will say this: I like the big bums on female figure skaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Well I will say this: I like the big bums on female figure skaters. LOL! I was admiring them last night at the rink as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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