What is wrong with the Flyers and how do you fix it?

[elmatus]

3 hours ago, FD19372 said:

I don't. We should sell high on Patrick. This might be the opportunity.

 

The sell high ship left port some time ago and seems to have been lost at sea. It would take a special brand of clueless for any GM to trade much for him right now. 

 

He's coming off a season where he scored a whopping 9pts in 52 games. In his first two, he scored at a 0.4p/pg clip. That ranks him below Hayes on the team's depth chart at center in terms of production.

 

In fact, he's about tied with Laughton, if we're still considering Laughton a center.

 

I'm not saying he shouldn't be moved necessarily, only that the return may not be anything very exciting. We'd definitely not be selling high.

Edited May 24, 2021 by elmatus

[Buffalo Rick]

13 hours ago, FD19372 said:

I would take Reinhart, of the two. Less $...not by a lot...but the fact remains. I like both, though.

Reinhart would be a savior for the Flyers no doubt.  But I do not see the Sabres letting him go. No way.  Eichel will stay.  We will get another top pick.  Adams will make moves. But he had best make his first move releasing Hutton at any cost.  I do not care what it costs.  He is the worst goalie in Sabres history.  The two kids are better.  Way better.  3 kids actually.  I think Adams is waiting for the season to end.  Then I had best see Hutton released or I may be in a local jai for assault

[tucson83]

22 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

When you have a team like the Flyers with good but not great players, the only way you can be successful is to have a balanced team that can play with some skill as well as some grit. Good goaltending and steady defense. It has to be  a total team effort and you have to out work the other team. Everyone has to be on board. We don’t have any superstars to take over and win a game for us. Our 1985 and 1987 teams on paper were not the most skilled but we came to play every night and everyone put in 100% and we went to the Cup twice. We are not gonna suddenly find a McDavid or guys like that , so we have to build a balanced team with no slackers.

the only way for this to work is that fletcher has to find a way to get rid of the big contracts and fix the defense, that's why tampa is so good because you need to have good defense to win, alot of bad teams are refusing to do that.

[tucson83]

22 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

When you have a team like the Flyers with good but not great players, the only way you can be successful is to have a balanced team that can play with some skill as well as some grit. Good goaltending and steady defense. It has to be  a total team effort and you have to out work the other team. Everyone has to be on board. We don’t have any superstars to take over and win a game for us. Our 1985 and 1987 teams on paper were not the most skilled but we came to play every night and everyone put in 100% and we went to the Cup twice. We are not gonna suddenly find a McDavid or guys like that , so we have to build a balanced team with no slackers.

the only way for this to work is that fletcher has to find a way to get rid of the big contracts and fix the defense, that's why tampa is so good because you need to have good defense to win, alot of bad teams are refusing to do that.

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Reinhart would be a savior for the Flyers no doubt.  But I do not see the Sabres letting him go. No way.  Eichel will stay.  We will get another top pick.  Adams will make moves. But he had best make his first move releasing Hutton at any cost.  I do not care what it costs.  He is the worst goalie in Sabres history.  The two kids are better.  Way better.  3 kids actually.  I think Adams is waiting for the season to end.  Then I had best see Hutton released or I may be in a local jai for assault

 

Reinhart is a very good player. Savior? Don't think so...at least he couldn't save Buffalo. I doubt he'd save the Flyers.

 

 

[radoran]

On 5/22/2021 at 10:08 AM, CoachX said:

im just pointing out that a season ago they were offensively effective, which showed in W's and playoffs

 

They were still streaky and inconsistent.

 

The playoffs are a good example. Yes, three OT wins against the Isles, but scored three goals in the other four games and were shut out twice, including Games 1 & 7.

 

You know who else made the second round, won three games, but scored three goals in the other four and were shutout three times, including Games 1 & 7?

Vancouver.

 

Not exactly the benchmark we might be looking for...

[radoran]

4 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

He is the worst goalie in Sabres history.

 

I'm old enough to remember when Robin Lehner was the worst goalie in Sabres' history.

 

It just might not entirely be the goalie.

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

They were still streaky and inconsistent.

 

The playoffs are a good example. Yes, three OT wins against the Isles, but scored three goals in the other four games and were shut out twice, including Games 1 & 7.

 

You know who else made the second round, won three games, but scored three goals in the other four and were shutout three times, including Games 1 & 7?

Vancouver.

 

Not exactly the benchmark we might be looking for...

Good points. But prior to the playoffs, i think a large number of us in this forum were feeling good about the team. They were hot, and were beating the best teams in the league. I thought they really had a shot to soemthing special, and offense was not a problem. In fact, the teams biggest issue was Hart's play in road games.

 

Playoffs hit, team collapsed, and they just got worse. So it seems to me the same players who made that team good, are still here. They just wont play to the same level

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Good points. But prior to the playoffs, i think a large number of us in this forum were feeling good about the team. They were hot, and were beating the best teams in the league. I thought they really had a shot to soemthing special, and offense was not a problem. In fact, the teams biggest issue was Hart's play in road games.

 

Playoffs hit, team collapsed, and they just got worse. So it seems to me the same players who made that team good, are still here. They just wont play to the same level

 

Yep.   This is an accurate description.  It's entirely mental/team psyche.    It didn't help that they lost Niskanen at the very last moment and the brilliant GM replaced him with...Gus.   I'm sorry, but there couldn't have been a guy in the room who didn't think, "WTAF?"

 

And this team is too psychologically brittle for that.    They don't do well in the face of adversity and haven't been in some time.  This is why we have seasons upon seasons of prolonged streaks.  Or periods of playing very well and then playing very poorly.  This group seems to be very emotional-based in terms of results.   It sounds like an excuse, but it's more an indictment.

 

We have a management group that seems to delude itself in always thinking we're already there while the players are always on the brink of hiding crying in a dark corner.   I vary between blaming management and player leadership, but because the player leadership is literally picked by management, I think you ultimately have to go with "It's management, stupid; player leadership is simply an extension of that."

[radoran]

21 minutes ago, CoachX said:

They were hot, and were beating the best teams in the league.

 

There was the nine game win streak just before the world stopped. But the only "best team" they beat in that stretch was Washington and it was bookended by losses to Tampa and Boston.

 

They were essentially a .500 team into mid-January and while you want a team to be coming together down the stretch - and they did look good - that nine-game win streak does cover up some cracks. (This also being an organization that famously won 10 in a row and lost 10 in a row in the same season).

 

And they started the "playoffs" with three wins in the "round robin". From where I was sitting, it was more the Flyers trying to make a statement while the "top teams" were getting their teams in order. I don't think Tampa cared if they were the "#1 seed" as much as they cared about winning the Cup (which they did).

 

And while I scroll through a regular season with a lot of 4-5-6 goal games, I look at a playoff where they didn't score more than three goals against Montreal (giving up 5 twice) and then were Jekyll and Hyde against the Islanders.

 

Essentially, they're not as bad as their low points but they're just not as good as their high points.

[Buffalo Rick]

23 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I'm old enough to remember when Robin Lehner was the worst goalie in Sabres' history.

 

It just might not entirely be the goalie.

That was not long ago.  We have had many great goalies but not since Miller 

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

That was not long ago.  We have had many great goalies but not since Miller 

 

And that's the point - it's not the goalie behind the team. It's the team in front of the goalie...

[Buffalo Rick]

10 hours ago, radoran said:

 

And that's the point - it's not the goalie behind the team. It's the team in front of the goalie...

Having Eichel is huge though,  The first order of business must be releasing Hutton 

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Having Eichel is huge though,  The first order of business must be releasing Hutton 

 

I wonder where you guys end up trading him too?

 

I hope somewhere out west.

[flyercanuck]

8 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Having Eichel is huge though,  The first order of business must be releasing Hutton 

 

Yes, he's really turned things around there. Instead of picking top ten like you guys have been doing for the last decade, you'll be picking 1st, 2nd or 3rd. Again.

 

Huge. 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by flyercanuck

[Icechipper]

So was Patrick over-sold or has he fallen short of his ceiling?

 

Minnesota always looking for centers.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Icechipper

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, Icechipper said:

So was Patrick over-sold or has he fallen short of his ceiling?

 

Minnesota always looking for centers.

First of all, good luck in game 7.   The Wild are actually a lot of fun to watch again.

 

Patrick is the poster child for a player needing a change.  The Wild took a chance on Hartman. He hasn't been super, but he's been better than anywhere to date.   I don't think Patrick has a chance until he moves, but I think he could still be very good.  And the Wild, I think, could be an interesting trade partner.

Edited May 27, 2021 by ruxpin

[RonJeremy]

On 5/24/2021 at 6:53 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah but high on what? 

The other GM would have to be high to offer anything more than a second or third round pick for Patrick. 

[tucson83]

i think we have to look at the bigger picture how to we leapfrog over teams in our division, we have to somehow get players that are in our division so we can leapfrog over them, like for example we get doggie, ovi, and seth jones, i know pipe dream but hear me out, we get those guys, we are suddenly better than washington, columbus, and carolina and assuming carter hart plays well, we will be third our division with boston and tampa. heck if we take some boston players for lesser deals, we will be leapfrogging them and competing with tampa.

 

yes tampa is tough team to beat, i would rather be competing with them and hopefully when they start losing players, we will be the top dog and go to the finals and maybe win it all.

Edited May 27, 2021 by tucson83

[mojo1917]

4 hours ago, Icechipper said:

So was Patrick over-sold or has he fallen short of his ceiling?

 

Minnesota always looking for centers.

I'm going to say he was oversold, then had some terrible luck with his health.

Missed a whole season with migraines, prior to that had some injuries in his first two seasons that kept him putting together a run of play to build off.

He made the team as an 18 year old, which tells you the Flyers were bad, but he should have spent that year in Brandon.

The Flyers messed him up pretty well. A change of scenery might be what's necessary. He has a **** ton of talent, but hasn't showed it since his second season.

 

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

He has $HIT talent, and has showed it since his first season.

FIFY!

[mojo1917]

 

@CoachX

@OccamsRazor

you can say, he should be better, that it hasn't worked out and you wouldn't be wrong.

When you say he has no talent you are.

tape don't lie.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by mojo1917

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

@CoachX

@OccamsRazor

you can say, he should be better, that it hasn't worked out and you wouldn't be wrong.

When you say he has no talent you are.

tape don't lie.

 

 

 

Hold. Up.

 

Now I never said he had no talent.

 

In fact his first year was solid.

 

I think his second year is where I was disappointed because I didn't see any real growth.

 

But I never anywhere here said he didn't have talent.

 

I said more of I was worried about his injuries and that he just hasn't live up to expectations.

 

Now I do understand he has had injury issues to derail some of that.

 

Buy my issue is more from the intensity side no fire in his eyes play.

 

Which is certainly warranted as a concern.

 

And someone here asked was it due to the meds he could be on and it could contribute to it some.

 

But I have never seen that fire despite since he has played from day one.

 

Sure spurts here and there.

 

But if I had to put a guess on it I don't feel like he really wants to play for the Flyers.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor

no but you laughed ...so you got tagged. 

I'm waiting for my computer to do math today, so I have too much? time for this fun today.

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@OccamsRazor

no but you laughed ...so you got tagged. 

I'm waiting for my computer to do math today, so I have too much? time for this fun today.

 

Sure. Because that side @CoachX has merit and I understand and acknowledge it.

 

Who knows he may be right....broken clock and all.

 

It happens.

 

Rare like a blood supermoon eclipse.