Game 15: Lightning at Flyers; 11/18/21 @ 7 PM, NBCSP

[GrittyForever]

Didn't win but got a point. I enjoyed that game. The OT was wild, no whistles. That was fun. 

[flyercanuck]

7 hours ago, FD19372 said:

I wonder why Kevin Hayes didn't play..is it the abdomen, personal reasons ..or what?

 

Probably Fletch doesn't want to embarrass the guy he's building the team around...so he's not allowing Vigneault to play him against teams that can skate. 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

The pundits say the teams from Edmonton, Calgary, Carolina, and Florida are the top 4 in the league.  I would throw Tampa in there, too.  In the last week, the Flyers have played 3 of them and taken 5 of 6 available points.  It’s been a pretty damn good week!

[Digityman]

4 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

The pundits say the teams from Edmonton, Calgary, Carolina, and Florida are the top 4 in the league.  I would throw Tampa in there, too.  In the last week, the Flyers have played 3 of them and taken 5 of 6 available points.  It’s been a pretty damn good week!

 

Please stop being positive.  This is unacceptable and punishments will be handed out if it continues.  

 

PS.  Also, I agree.  I'm quite happy where the Flyers are currently with the players that have been available.  I question things like their PP, their ability to handle injured players and stuff like that but overall, they are almost exactly where I thought they would be at this point in the season - even with 2 of their better out of the lineup (not including Allison)

Edited November 19, 2021 by Digityman

[Podein25]

Sounds like I missed a good game. 

 

Also, I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue.

[Cheesesteak]

10 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Sounds like I missed a good game. 

 

Also, I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue.

[FD19372]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

Sounds like I missed a good game. 

 

Also, I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue.

Please go back to sniffing glue. We need to win these damned games. Thanks.

Edited November 19, 2021 by FD19372

[Mad Dog]

A lot has happened in this game, but one thing has underlined the problem for me: the Flyers still can't beat a contender.  Not today, anyway.  And I couldn't care less about shootouts any more than anybody else, but that to me was an epitome of the problem.  The Bolts have their best guys - both burying the shots.  Our two best guys didn't.  The skillset of the Tampa, Florida, and Carolina is just on a whole different level.

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, Podein25 said:

Sounds like I missed a good game. 

 

Also, I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue.

And don't call me shirley

[radoran]

33 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

A lot has happened in this game, but one thing has underlined the problem for me: the Flyers still can't beat a contender.  ...  The skillset of the Tampa, Florida, and Carolina is just on a whole different level.

 

I'm not entirely disagreeing here, but they did beat Carolina.

 

35 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Not today, anyway. 

 

Yeah, I'm not picking them to win a seven game series in a Conference Final, but barring a serious collapse (or injury) they should make the playoffs in my mind. And they do have time to put things together as a team over the next few months.

 

For me, scoring is the real issue. They've averaged two goals a game this month. Hart has been playing fantastic, but two goals a game isn't going to get you very far, especially when 3-on-3 goes away.

 

The B2B with Tampa and the Panthers next week is another big marker.

 

At the very least, they're more fun to watch than they have been for several seasons and seem to have a bit of a chip on the shoulder.

[Mad Dog]

@radoran

 

I agree with much of what you typed.  And to a certain degree, I agree they are more fun to watch this season.  But I am just looking at this team in a slightly different context, I guess. I am looking at the team who last won the Cup when Gerald Ford was the President.  We've been through decades... not years.... DECADES of sheer disappointment and endless excuses (injuries, Lindros, bad schedules, poor coaching, Clarke, etc.)... to the point of me feeling nauseated. You know... if we were talking about Seattle Kraken, I would gladly take making the playoffs as a big success.  But after the decades of futility and disappointment, I don't care about them being fun to watch.  That's not going to cut it; not for me anyway. The Devils were not a fun-to-watch team when they won those multiple Cups. We are talking almost 50 years worth of futility.  It's almost half of a century!!! I want results!  I think it's justifiable.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Mad Dog

[radoran]

8 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

It's almost half of a century!!! I want results!  I think it's justifiable.

 

Absolutely justifiable. And right there with you.

 

Truth is that they've managed to a) suck and b) be lucky in the lottery in two very down years of the draft and when they did "a" the lottery luck went the other way.

 

My perspective was more that I simply didn't enjoy watching the games and that that's at least (emphasis on least) turned around a bit. That said, they're still not the "appointment television" for me that they used to be.

 

And the truth is that they are still a middling bubble playoff team and are still chasing the "anything can happen" dragon. I get that we feel disappointed - and we should - but there is also an entire generation for whom the Flyers have never been a successful franchise.

 

They've won one division title since the lockout - 11 years ago - and finished 2nd once (in the COVID-shortened season). In the 10 years before the lockout they never finished lower than 2nd and won five division crowns with three Conference Finals and a Cup Final.

 

Right now they sit 4th and even if they win the two games in hand they have, they're tied for third.

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, radoran said:

That said, they're still not the "appointment television" for me that they used to be.

 

Your entire post was pretty spot on but just want to comment on the above.

 

I'm right with you on the "appointment television."  In fact, my wife actually knows the Flyers' TV schedule better than me, and she couldn't care less about actually watching it.  If there's anything else on or anything else she wants to do, I usually give up the TV because while I'm with you on "this year's team has at least turned around the 'enjoyable'" but it hasn't made it to "must-see TV."    In fact, even when I do sit and watch it, I'm only half watching it.    It at least stays on the screen, though.

 

Tell you the truth, I pay more attention to the fantasy hockey score than I do the Flyers' score -- though this year my teams are actually doing worse than them.

 

But for me I'm wondering aobut the "still not the 'appointment television.'"   I'm starting to think they could be the 1987 Oilers and they still wouldn't be calendar-altering for me.   I may have outgrown it, finally, and may not be able to go back.    

 

Kind of like when you stop going to Amway meetings and realize it's just soap and stupid people.

Edited November 19, 2021 by ruxpin

[radoran]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

I may have outgrown it, finally, and may not be able to go back.    

 

I grew up hardcore 4-for-4 in Philly.

 

Stopped watching the NBA around 2002. Dropped the Phillies in 2007, and became a bandwagoner. I'll bandwagon both.

 

Really only watch the NFL because my wife is a huge Stillers fan. Mildly interested in the Eagles, but the Kelly/Sirianni choices have been challenging. Didn't really like Pederson, but hard to argue with results.

 

The Flyers I stuck with because I really like hockey. I've reminded myself of this over the past several years by watching other teams play. Very much with you on paying attention to the FHL a little more.

 

I used to be identifiable by the ever present Flyers hat on my head. I'm not even sure where it is at the moment.

[CoachX]

9 hours ago, Podein25 said:

Sounds like I missed a good game. 

 

Also, I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue.

Reported!

[CoachX]

18 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Your entire post was pretty spot on but just want to comment on the above.

 

I'm right with you on the "appointment television."  In fact, my wife actually knows the Flyers' TV schedule better than me, and she couldn't care less about actually watching it.  If there's anything else on or anything else she wants to do, I usually give up the TV because while I'm with you on "this year's team has at least turned around the 'enjoyable'" but it hasn't made it to "must-see TV."    In fact, even when I do sit and watch it, I'm only half watching it.    It at least stays on the screen, though.

 

Tell you the truth, I pay more attention to the fantasy hockey score than I do the Flyers' score -- though this year my teams are actually doing worse than them.

 

But for me I'm wondering aobut the "still not the 'appointment television.'"   I'm starting to think they could be the 1987 Oilers and they still wouldn't be calendar-altering for me.   I may have outgrown it, finally, and may not be able to go back.    

 

Kind of like when you stop going to Amway meetings and realize it's just soap and stupid people.

Really good post, Rux. Mostly becasue I agree totally with it and have alot of the same thoughts/feelings.

 

I often wonder how the Flyers have attracted such a vast, widespread fan base. Hockey fans are knowledgeable, passionate and dedicated. I think many, maybe even a majority, of Flyers fans here, are from outside of the Philly area. I would not want to speak for them, because that would show that I truly am a lunatic (shut up Pods!), but the question in my mind is, how does a team that has only won 2 cups, in a time when most of these fans weren't around to witness it, that has not produced a cavalcade of HOF players and no league superstars, attract such loyalty? The only conclusion I came to was its about the character and style of the team itself.

 

When it was "appointment television" for me, the players on ice played for the team and the city with a hard nose, gritty style. Win or lose, a battle was going to happen. On nay given shift, something interesting had a chance to happen. Often times, if not a goal, then at least a punch in the face. And should the team lose on the scoreboard, the opposition would pay for it in the trenches.

 

That style is gone. That anticipation of something happening every game, is also gone. The business of the game has removed the emotional connection to the players. I would also say our knowledge of all things hockey, through forums like this, have given us insight that can negatively impact our opinion of a player/team. I know for me, when I learn the in and outs of players contract from our forum mates, and the potential financial impact in a few years, it effects how I feel about that player. Hayes is a prime example. Lastly, the game has changed. People are attracted to violence. MMA is always a huge draw. Boxing used to be (for me). And now, there isnt a whole lot of that left. The Flyers are no longer that tough team we all loved them to be. The spark and fire has been removed. So, I watch when I watch. Try to stay awake. And hope that I am watching that one game a year when Scott Laughton actually shows he has balls, and drops the gloves

 

 

[tucson83]

20 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Absolutely justifiable. And right there with you.

 

Truth is that they've managed to a) suck and b) be lucky in the lottery in two very down years of the draft and when they did "a" the lottery luck went the other way.

 

My perspective was more that I simply didn't enjoy watching the games and that that's at least (emphasis on least) turned around a bit. That said, they're still not the "appointment television" for me that they used to be.

 

And the truth is that they are still a middling bubble playoff team and are still chasing the "anything can happen" dragon. I get that we feel disappointed - and we should - but there is also an entire generation for whom the Flyers have never been a successful franchise.

 

They've won one division title since the lockout - 11 years ago - and finished 2nd once (in the COVID-shortened season). In the 10 years before the lockout they never finished lower than 2nd and won five division crowns with three Conference Finals and a Cup Final.

 

Right now they sit 4th and even if they win the two games in hand they have, they're tied for third.

 

i think our success over the years has alot to do with what positions this team values over the years meaning when it comes to experience. goaltending, defense, center positions, we never went away from that, heck that's why the blues were won a cup, tampa won two cups, it's about controlling the middle of the ice, if you have inexperience players in these positions, it's going to be a blood bath, exhibit a: last year's short season team, didnt get centers, defense, we were a laughing stock. this year, we get centers and defense, goaltending, we are a much better team.

 

i think if we get another defenseman and a center at the trade deadline, i think we can go far in the playoffs.

[Podein25]

20 hours ago, radoran said:

I really like hockey. I've reminded myself of this over the past several years by watching other teams play.

 

[radoran]

3 hours ago, tucson83 said:

i think if we get another defenseman and a center at the trade deadline, i think we can go far in the playoffs.

 

I think Ellis coming back healthy could be that D guy.

 

They still desperately need a productive #2 center. That would go a long way towards fixing it.

[Cheesesteak]

another "issue" with the current Flyers team I have is, there is not really a player that I LOVE that's on the team.  I Loved having Leclair on the team, wow, has it been that long since the Flyers have had a truly remarkable player?  Maybe Giroux or Cooter currently but meh.  Farabee has potential.  I loved having Pronger, heck, even Briere. 

 

not sure my point exactly but am definitely not "star struck" by any current Flyer.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, Cheesesteak said:

another "issue" with the current Flyers team I have is, there is not really a player that I LOVE that's on the team.  I Loved having Leclair on the team, wow, has it been that long since the Flyers have had a truly remarkable player?  Maybe Giroux or Cooter currently but meh.  Farabee has potential.  I loved having Pronger, heck, even Briere. 

 

not sure my point exactly but am definitely not "star struck" by any current Flyer.

 

 Giroux was, but is past his prime. Still fun to watch on occasion. Couturier never really wowed you but was just so good all over the ice.

 

 Konecny was becoming a favorite, but then the "new Flyer development program" took over and he's regressed.

 

 Provorov...see above.

 

 Farabee...ditto.

[radoran]

11 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 Giroux was, but is past his prime.

 

No, he really wasn't. Ever. He's a top flight "good" player but has never been a player to build a franchise around.

 

He can't break the top 12 Team Canada forwards when everyone is available.

 

He's a guy that punched higher than his draft position as the featured player on a bad team. The only people who think he's a great player wear #28 jerseys.

 

I will continually wait for him to happily prove me wrong.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by radoran

[radoran]

On 11/20/2021 at 10:46 AM, CoachX said:

I often wonder how the Flyers have attracted such a vast, widespread fan base. Hockey fans are knowledgeable, passionate and dedicated. I think many, maybe even a majority, of Flyers fans here, are from outside of the Philly area. I would not want to speak for them, because that would show that I truly am a lunatic (shut up Pods!), but the question in my mind is, how does a team that has only won 2 cups, in a time when most of these fans weren't around to witness it, that has not produced a cavalcade of HOF players and no league superstars, attract such loyalty?

 

The Bullies are legends to this day.

 

The Flyers put up the longest unbeaten streak.

 

They challenged the Oilers dominance.

 

The Legion is still remembered fondly.

 

The team never finished less than 2nd for a decade before the lockout. Made Conference Finals. Won divisions.

 

I doubt there's a hardcore Flyer fan on this site that became a fan in the past 15 years. Happy to meet them.

 

Would like to meet their therapist.

Edited November 22, 2021 by radoran

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, radoran said:

 

No, he really wasn't. Ever. He's a top flight "good" player but has never been a player to build a franchise around.

 

He can't break the top 12 Team Canada forwards when everyone is available.

 

He's a guy that punched higher than his draft position as the featured player on a bad team. The only people who think he's a great player wear #28 jerseys.

 

I will continually wait for him to happily prove me wrong.

 

 

He was. I think Marchand is a good comparison with their ages being similar. I'd call Marchand a pretty remarkable player. Girouxs best seasons are better than Marchands. And he has averaged more ppg than the Rat. On worse teams. With lousier linemates. He's not McDavid or Crosby... but neither is anyone else. At 34 his best days are clearly behind him. But even over the last 5 years he's tied with 1st overall Auston Matthews in scoring. 1 point behind 1st overall John Tavares in scoring. 3 points behind 1st overall Sidney Crosby. 14 behind 1st overall Alex Ovechkin. He's put up the 8th most points of anyone in the last 14 years. That's elite. 4 of the 7 ahead of him were 1st overall. One was 2nd. 

 

And no, I don't own his jersey.

 

And the only reason he couldn't make TC in his prime was pouty faced Crosby wanting his linemate Kunitz who was clearly inferior to Giroux and several other Canadians who didn't make the cut.

 

There are many elite players who punched higher than their draft positions...it happens almost every year. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by flyercanuck