John Tortorella?

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Hayes has missed substantial time with adductor issues, which hurts your mobility/motor a lot.

 

Yeah, but he decided he was good enough to be on the ice.

 

For me "a lot" is something you sit down and take care of.

 

For hockey players - better or worse - think 80% is good enough "to help" and it rarely helps the team or the player.

 

If a player is out there with something affecting his level of play "a lot" then he shouldn't be out there.

 

IMO

 

[flyercanuck]

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Yeah, but he decided he was good enough to be on the ice.

 

For me "a lot" is something you sit down and take care of.

 

For hockey players - better or worse - think 80% is good enough "to help" and it rarely helps the team or the player.

 

If a player is out there with something affecting his level of play "a lot" then he shouldn't be out there.

 

IMO

 

 

You know what affected Hayes play even more?

 

His work ethic.

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You know what affected Hayes play even more?

 

His work ethic.

 

You're only saying that because none of the teams that have paid assets to acquire Hayes have wanted to keep him.

 

[flyercanuck]

49 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

You're only saying that because none of the teams that have paid assets to acquire Hayes have wanted to keep him.

 

 

I know...unfair, innit?

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

but the way that some people go on about him, you'd think he was the reincarnation of Dick Allen, who really was a locker room cancer.

For me the issue(s) with acquiring Hayes was always about his slow foot speed, his unwillingness or inability to play a 200’ game and the fact that he was slotted as a 2C while his career numbers (10 seasons’ worth) suggested he’d top out at ~50pts. Granted that last one isn’t a fault of Hayes per se it’s more a dereliction of duty by the Flyers, which they compounded by offering him twice what they should’ve offered in money and term, and nearly twice what he’s worth.
 

But that’s the way the Flyers roll. They wanted the Big Name that summer and since “money is no object” (paraphrasing Dave Scott, the Flyers’ Governor and Chairman at the time) there was no stopping them, even when it was rumored that Hayes had no interest in the Flyers “unless they overpay me,” which is reportedly what he said. Whether the rumor was true or not I don’t blame Hayes for wanting a big salary. Unfortunately the Flyers (and their fans) paid it and they’ll keep paying for another couple years.

 

Hopefully the new Good Ol’ Boys club (I’m afraid so) doesn’t start believing their own b.s.. They’re bound to fall into it that’s just the way cliques work but maybe the Flyers can sneak in a few Cup wins before it all goes to hell. 

[GrittyForever]

Well the way I see it is the first thing you do in a rebuild is get rid of as much of the crap you have as possible. Clean the slate. I think they've done this as much as possible. 

 

The second thing you need to do is build a culture and instill a work ethic in the team. A locker room where your youth movement can be brought along the right way. Play the right way. This is Torts. I think he's doing a good job of this and as the kids come along they will fit into this idea nicely and the foundation will be strong. 

 

In 3 years I'm not sure if Torts is still the right guy to take you to the next step but that will be seen if and when we get there. Torts is a smart guy and as much as some people think he's a dinosaur I think he will adapt to the new realities of the game. When we finally make the playoffs, we will not be an easy out. 

[CoachX]

8 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

@CoachX At no time did I suggest that the Flyers should have kept Chuck Fletcher. It was a mistake to hire him, and I don't blame you for being happy that he's gone. I don't think that means that the answer to that mistake is a rookie who was the last guy's assistant, and whose boss' career track, from player to years on TV to upper management, is kind of the oddest that I've ever seen.

No. You didn't.  I didn't take it that way, and apologies, no implication was meant.

 

Funny thing, everything else you put in this post is exactly what I was saying about DB before, and immediately when he was hired. I didn't like it one bit. I'm still not sure it will work.  All I'm saying is he's here now, and ain't schidt I can do about it. So I'm hoping he does a good job and even though I was against this, I still like it better that what was here before

[phlfly]

Well we don't have a good hockey for few years but at least a good comedy club presented by Torts ! There are lot young players so he has a full access for a joke materials. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by phlfly

[Cheesesteak]

On 7/26/2023 at 10:48 AM, CoachX said:

the Paul Holmgren  Center "For Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too"

they better build it at least three times the size 

 

 

 

Moisture is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty. 

[hmc687]

On 7/26/2023 at 2:09 PM, flyercanuck said:

 

You know what affected Hayes play even more?

 

His work ethic.

 

I think Hayes brother dying messed him up, big.  Not that we had a big sample size but Hayes never seemed the same...surreal

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, hmc687 said:

 

I think Hayes brother dying messed him up, big.  Not that we had a big sample size but Hayes never seemed the same...surreal

 

His brother was alive before he signed with the Flyers. New York used a 1st round pick to take him in the draft and then didn't want him. Winnipeg traded a 1st round pick for 20 games of Kevin Hayes and decided they didn't want him.  He's always been slow and lazy. If he had any worth ethic at all, he'd likely still be a Ranger or Jet.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Here's the other thing with Tortorella and why he's perfect for the rebuild. It was him, not Schmuck or anyone else in the organization, that was calling for a full rebuild. Schmuck thought that this club could make the playoffs when they started the season on a shooting heater and getting all world goaltending. Tortorella was smart enough to see through the mirage. Same when they were 10 points out. Tortorella saw through things and continued to call things out. 

 

Tortorella might be the only person who has been absolutely, truthfully and brutally honest in his short time here. I expect that when he finishes this coaching contract, hell remain a part of the organization in some sort of player personnel role. And people can say what they want about the man, but he recognizes talent. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by BobbyClarkeFan16

[OccamsRazor]

11 hours ago, hmc687 said:

 

I think Hayes brother dying messed him up, big.

 

Nah dude already had his issues. But it certainly didn't help matters either.

[OccamsRazor]

7 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

New York used a 1st round pick to take him in the draft and then didn't want him.

 

No the Blackhawks drafted him and they couldn't work out a contract so after August 15th he became a free agent.

 

Then he signed an entry level contract with the Rags. He signed a small bridge deal and then a 1 year deal with the Rags before they eventually traded him to the Jets.

 

I am glad he is gone good riddance he did come out and had a great year and he was an All star but still he just doesn't fit in Philly.

 

Now he is gone. Good he can float out West.

[OccamsRazor]

7 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

If he had any worth ethic at all, he'd likely still be a Ranger or Jet.

 

Yes exactly.

 

Mean to include this in my last post.

 

Just like the Panthers could have kept Giroux if wanted but they knew they had to find a star and a young one at that.

 

I did though always envision him finishing up in Bean town though. Hey still could.

[hmc687]

13 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

His brother was alive before he signed with the Flyers. New York used a 1st round pick to take him in the draft and then didn't want him. Winnipeg traded a 1st round pick for 20 games of Kevin Hayes and decided they didn't want him.  He's always been slow and lazy. If he had any worth ethic at all, he'd likely still be a Ranger or Jet.

 

Eh that could be a "not a fit" issue too.  Hayes was decent w NYR but the problem was Fletcher (big surprise) giving Hayes 1C/2C money when he's an okay 2C and a good 3C.

[flyercanuck]

10 hours ago, hmc687 said:

 

Eh that could be a "not a fit" issue too.  Hayes was decent w NYR but the problem was Fletcher (big surprise) giving Hayes 1C/2C money when he's an okay 2C and a good 3C.

 

For sure it was a "not fit" issue. Where does a lazy AND slow player fit in the NHL? Besides on a Fletcher team? And we've all seen the results of his team building.

 

I think Hayes was decent at the beginning on NY...then it went to his head. He's one of those guys when the opposition gets the puck you're basically playing shorthanded.

[SCFlyguy]

Hayes was vastly overrated in NY.  It says something that the Rangers chose to keep Kreider for the rebuild and not Hayes even though the former was older and they have very similar stats.

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

Hayes was vastly overrated in NY.  It says something that the Rangers chose to keep Kreider for the rebuild and not Hayes even though the former was older and they have very similar stats.

 

Well, Kreider can actually skate.

[GratefulFlyers]

3 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Hayes was vastly overrated in NY.  It says something that the Rangers chose to keep Kreider for the rebuild and not Hayes even though the former was older and they have very similar stats.

He wasn’t overrated by the fans believe me. You know who overrated him? The unemployed ex-GM of the Flyers, him and everyone else who signed off on that riDICulous 7-year $50mil contract.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

He wasn’t overrated by the fans believe me. You know who overrated him? The unemployed ex-GM of the Flyers, him and everyone else who signed off on that riDICulous 7-year $50mil contract.

 

The guy who the organization* hired after firing his predecessor with no plan?

 

The guy who hired the coach that they needed to overpay Hayes for seven years to be the voice in the locker room for?

 

The guy who then fired that coach with no plan whatsoever two years later?

 

Sounds like a great guy.

 

[GrittyForever]

No matter what Torts does now, we can still say "at least he's not Babcock". 

[JR Ewing]

8 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

No matter what Torts does now, we can still say "at least he's not Babcock". 

 

Tortorella's alright, as I see it. If he has a problem with how you're playing, there's no head games at all, but a direct conversation. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[RonJeremy]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:50 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

No the Blackhawks drafted him and they couldn't work out a contract so after August 15th he became a free agent.

 

Then he signed an entry level contract with the Rags. He signed a small bridge deal and then a 1 year deal with the Rags before they eventually traded him to the Jets.

 

I am glad he is gone good riddance he did come out and had a great year and he was an All star but still he just doesn't fit in Philly.

 

Now he is gone. Good he can float out West.

He was an all star like the last girl left in the bar at 4am is hot.

[radoran]

9 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Tortorella's alright, as I see it. If he has a problem with how you're playing, there's no head games at all, but a direct conversation. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

I think he legit wants players to play to their potential.

 

Not every player can, for a variety of reasons - not all of them coachable.

 

And he's obviously not afraid of making "statements" like scratching Sanheim in Calgary or stapling TDA to the locker room to end the season.

 

How effective that is when you don't have a VLC and MSL in their absolute primes is up for some debate.

 

I think he's not a bad choice for where they are. That said, he's not "Briere's" coach.

 

If he learns and the team develops into a contender - and wins - he has the potential to go from being hated to a Philadelphia legend.

 

That's a lot of ifs.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by radoran