c/should VLC take signing bonus July 1 and void contract?

[idahophilly]

I came across this from Meltzer. If this is possible it sure would solve a huge issue. It's probably to much to hope for but I'm still gonna hope.

 

Meltzer muses...

 

"4) I suspect that the hiring of Hakstol as head coach did nothing to change Vincent Lecavalier's feelings about whether he has a place and a role on the Philadelphia Flyers. To the best of his ability, Hakstol is going to try to install a highly structured system that emphasizes skating, back-pressure and 200-foot play with the forwards carrying significant defensive responsibilities and the defensemen supporting the play offensively. I do not foresee Lecavalier being the right fit to get the type of ice time he needs to be effectively. 

I especially do not think the longtime star player will buy into notion of going the extra mile for a coach who never played in the NHL and has no prior pro-level coaching experience telling him he needs to buy into a different way of playing than what worked for Lecavalier in the past and did not work for him under Berube. 
 

This might be Lecavalier's best bet, because he's going to be tough to trade this summer and Hextall is adamant about not buying him out. According to the data that was on Capgeek before the site went offline, Lecavalier is due a $2 million installment on his signing bonus this summer. That installment likely must be paid to him on July 1, 2015. After that date, there really is very little reason for him not to essentially walk away from the Flyers by coming to a mutual contract termination agreement in which he'd forfeit the rest of his contract (including a $500,000 signing bonus installment due on July 1, 2016) but be an unrestricted free agent with the rest of the summer to find a new team. 

There are clubs that would probably still have interest in Lecavalier on a modest contract that costs them no assets. Don't forget that Lecavalier is still collecting substantial annual checks from Tampa Bay for his amnesty buyout from the summer of 2013 on top of the $2 million he is due to collect from the Flyers. A termination on July 2nd would save the Flyers cap space in future seasons and would give Lecavalier absolute freedom to find a team where he's a better fit.

By going public on cleanout day about things his agent had said previously, Lecavalier essentially said he was done with the Flyers. While he left the door open to come back based on Berube's (then-impending) dismissal and the installation of a new system in which he fit, the new coach and the new system are probably not what he had in mind. 

Will Lecavalier agree to terminate after July 1st so he can have his freedom? I have no idea. But it seems like the best arrangement of mutual benefit. Otherwise, it's still going to be tough to find a trade partner. The thought of Lecavalier going through another season as a bit player and/or healthy scratch is something that neither he nor the Flyers should even fathom. It's better to just agree to part ways, but there's no way Lecavalier will -- or should -- do it before he gets his money."

 

Heres hoping...

[flyerrod]

I can see Vinny taking that...especially since he will still be paid from Tampa from the buyout. Vinny still has skills, just not 4.5 mil a season skills.....I like you idaho, hope he has enough pride to say," I want to still play this game." and will take his services elsewhere.

[pilldoc]

@idahophilly

 

I think many of us secretly where hoping for this last year.   I believe the idea was tossed around here and there in a few posts.  Look, as I have stated many many times,  I don't hate VLC.  However, this was a bad deal from the very moment the ink was drying on the contract.  VLC came here because he wanted to play for Lavy and when that ship sailed so did VLC really fitting on this team.

 

He was an outstanding player at one time.  He is still can contribute somewhere, but just not here.  Like you mentioned, I hope all parties are in mutal agreement with this and they just agree to part ways.  Thay would be the best thing for this cub.

 

Please Vinny for the love of god....just walk away peacefully........

 

that is all

[Phlyer1]

Is it possible he still wants to prove something to the team and the Philly fans?

[AJgoal]

If he did this, he'd leave about 9 million on the table. That's still a lot of cash, and probably more than he'd get on the open market at this point.

[pilldoc]

Is it possible he still wants to prove something to the team and the Philly fans?

 

Anything is possible, but I guess it all depends on how much he (Vinny) buys inito Haky's system.  As much as I respect Vinny it is time for him to move on....especially with that monstrosity of a contract. 

[OccamsRazor]

@idahophilly

 

I think many of us secretly where hoping for this last year.   I believe the idea was tossed around here and there in a few posts.  Look, as I have stated many many times,  I don't hate VLC.  However, this was a bad deal from the very moment the ink was drying on the contract.  VLC came here because he wanted to play for Lavy and when that ship sailed so did VLC really fitting on this team.

 

He was an outstanding player at one time.  He is still can contribute somewhere, but just not here.  Like you mentioned, I hope all parties are in mutal agreement with this and they just agree to part ways.  Thay would be the best thing for this cub.

 

Please Vinny for the love of god....just walk away peacefully........

 

that is all

 

 

I can't see him doing this regardless if they wait to pay his 2mill due after July 1st he'd still be walking away from 9mill over the following two seasons....no way he gets a deal close to that gain....so who in their right mind would walk away from 9 mill????

 

Answer??? No one.

 

Now there may be a slight chance he plays a good soldier has a decent year and waive his NMC to get move at the deadline to a team loading up for a playoff run.

 

And BIG if no doubt but i know he won't be move before the start of the season.

[OccamsRazor]

If he did this, he'd leave about 9 million on the table. That's still a lot of cash, and probably more than he'd get on the open market at this point.

 

 

Yeah i just posted this no way he walks away from that...no way.

[murraycraven]

as others have said - I cant see him walking away from 9M... no way.

[flyercanuck]

He'd probably get close to that from another team...a team that actually wants him. 3 years is a long time to be despised by Flyer fans.

[JJMason33]

as others have said - I cant see him walking away from 9M... no way.

I disagree. Vinny has made his money. Now it's more about finishing his career with pride. He basically said he doesn't want to come back under the same role and system. If the Flyers make it clear he will or will ride the pine for the next 2 years, basically ending his career like a fart in church than I see him moving on. The Flyers will allow him to pursue trade options like they did last season. When no-one bites he will terminate his contract.

Now we just need to talk Umberger and MacDonald into it too. Lol

[Lucky13]

VLC doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who p*ssed away his millions on hookers & blow, so I'm going on the assumption that he has A LOT of those millions left in the bank.

 

And, he's not walking away from $9M, but rather from the *difference* between $9M and whatever he could get elsewhere. e.g., If he could find a new deal for 2 years at $2.5M per, he's leaving $4M on the table.

 

It sounds unfathomable to most (all?) of us here...But again assuming he's financially secure, he could very well be at a place in his career where another shot at the Stanley Cup and/or putting a capstone on his legacy ("going out on a high note") -- rather than going out mired in controversy, continually scratched, stuck on a non-contending club, etc. -- could be more important to him than the incremental $4M.

 

I've been in the situation where I've chosen a job offer that was not simply the highest $$$ value, because there were other important factors in the decision for me. Unfortunately for me there were not as many 0s in play as VLC has to think about, but I think the same principle still applies. It really comes down to what Vinny is motivated by at this point in his life...and only he knows what those things are. But maybe soon we'll all get to find out.

 

For the record, I'm in the camp that bears him no ill will for signing a contract Homer should have never offered; that's 100% on the organ-i-zation. I think he can still be a valuable piece on a team where he can slot into the right role. Maybe something like an up-and-coming playoff team that could use help on the power play, leadership in the room from a guy who's won the Cup before, and mentoring for younger players.

[King Knut]

I can see Vinny taking that...especially since he will still be paid from Tampa from the buyout. Vinny still has skills, just not 4.5 mil a season skills.....I like you idaho, hope he has enough pride to say," I want to still play this game." and will take his services elsewhere.

 

The problem is that "  "  Is pretty much the name of the game in the NHL right now. 

Again, I  think Meltzer is being way simplistic in his assumptions as to what Vinny's problems with Chief were.  Any player who doesn't want to be involved in a defense first system, just doesn't want to play in the NHL right now.  Vinny's not a moron.  It wasn't because Chief wanted him to be responsible defensively that he was frustrate, it was because Chief had NO system.  Chief's system was to shut down the play in your own end and then somehow figure out a way to score.

 

There was no outlet structure, no transition plan, no nothing which is why only the most utterly gifted guys who are at the top of their games both in Skill and in Physical conditioning (i.e. Jake and G) excelled at this Chief style of Pond Hockey. 

 

There is no reason on earth to think LeCavalier is such a moron that he thinks there's some NHL team out there who will want him to come in and be a cherry picker who plays between his blue line and hashes.  He's not dumb.  He knows what SHOULD be expected of him and he believes he can still do it.  He just doesn't think Chief was putting him (or anyone else probably) in a position to execute that. 

 

Vinny isn't going anywhere just yet in all likelihood. Not unless he and hexy and hacksy have a sit down together and they tell him it just ain't gonna work anymore. 

[King Knut]

I've been in the situation where I've chosen a job offer that was not simply the highest $$$ value, because there were other important factors in the decision for me. Unfortunately for me there were not as many 0s in play as VLC has to think about, but I think the same principle still applies. It really comes down to what Vinny is motivated by at this point in his life...and only he knows what those things are. But maybe soon we'll all get to find out.

 

I hear you on choosing the job you want and sacrificing a few bucks... and I could see it a lot more if he'd never won the cup actually.  But when we're talking about millions of dollars and as a player you're thinking about the REST of your life...  He'd have to not want to stay here a whole lot to give up that kind of scratch.  That's a lot of money no matter who you are. 

 

I mean if you make 100k, 40k ain't nuthin' even if it is over 5 years.

[mojo1917]

@Lucky13 

 

good post, good points

[Podein25]

He'd probably get close to that from another team...a team that actually wants him. 3 years is a long time to be despised by Flyer fans.

It's true. Ask Santa.

[Lucky13]

I hear you on choosing the job you want and sacrificing a few bucks... and I could see it a lot more if he'd never won the cup actually.  But when we're talking about millions of dollars and as a player you're thinking about the REST of your life...  He'd have to not want to stay here a whole lot to give up that kind of scratch.  That's a lot of money no matter who you are. 

 

I mean if you make 100k, 40k ain't nuthin' even if it is over 5 years.

 

...All true. It's a complex situation he's in, and I see the rationale on both sides. There's no denying $4M is a lot of cash, no matter what your personal sliding scale is.

 

The flip side is, as my uncle once told me, "Some money costs too much." If VLC is truly unhappy with the situation here, and doesn't think it's likely to change dramatically, he could conceivably decide it's worth $_M (whatever the # turns out to be) to go to a situation where he's happier.

 

I think it's really a story about the person at the center of it all, and it comes down to questions like: What kind of guy is he? What's really important to him? What does he hope to get from the final few years of his career?

 

It's going to be an interesting summer and 2015-16 season in Flyer-Land, that's the only thing I'll say for sure!

[RJ8812]

we could only hope....right?

[OccamsRazor]

"It hasn't worked for Vinny, and it hasn't worked for us, and at this point, it's safe to say I'm not convinced it changes anything," Hextall said.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/flyers/Flyers-sign-D-man-from-KHL.html#2xv6zv14ROqEDyoT.99

[Howie58]

Howdy:

 

My guess: Another year to see if there is any uptick under new coach (unlikely). If that fails to pan out, he either retires or risks losing whatever reputation he has left.  We may buy him out...probably cheaper at that juncture.

 

Howie

[Mad Dog]

The only scenario where I can see this happenning is if Vinny has some sort of an agreement that an X team wants his services and is willing to sign him.  I just don't see why he would leave so much money on the table and risk not finding a team where he could be playing next year and on.  What possible incentive does he have to do this?

[RJ8812]

If he did this, he'd leave about 9 million on the table. That's still a lot of cash, and probably more than he'd get on the open market at this point.

 

actually, after taxes, he would only be leaving ~$5m on the table 

[canoli]

What possible incentive does he have to do this?

 

consider: he hates his job with the Flyers - at least it sounds like he does - add that to the fact that he's a very wealthy man - why wouldn't he walk away once he gets his signing bonus? As a FA he can probably find a team who values his services... obviously the Flyers don't want him...Vinny's looking at another year of scratches, stories questioning his game, etc. If I were him - with X-millions in the bank already - I'd say "who needs it?"

[Mad Dog]

consider: he hates his job with the Flyers - at least it sounds like he does - add that to the fact that he's a very wealthy man - why wouldn't he walk away once he gets his signing bonus? As a FA he can probably find a team who values his services... obviously the Flyers don't want him...Vinny's looking at another year of scratches, stories questioning his game, etc. If I were him - with X-millions in the bank already - I'd say "who needs it?"

 

There is no gurantee he will be able to find that team who wants him.  There is no such a thing as too much money, my friend. 

[JJMason33]

The only scenario where I can see this happenning is if Vinny has some sort of an agreement that an X team wants his services and is willing to sign him.  I just don't see why he would leave so much money on the table and risk not finding a team where he could be playing next year and on.  What possible incentive does he have to do this?

To not end his career on the bench, still traveling with the team, away from family but not playing.  To try to be relevant at least 1 more time, not just rotting away on the team plane, practicing with goons, etc.  Because if he refuses to travel with the team and practice the Flyers could terminate his contract.

 

I assume this has been discussed with Vinny.  I think what was likely said is we will wait to pay you the 2 million on July 1.  At that time and likely prior he can try to work out a deal with any team he chooses that doesn't require the Flyers to retain cap.  If he can't find a trade partner by X-date then he has 2 choices.  1. Terminate his contract and find a team that he can sign with and be relevant.  2. Stay with the Flyers and play into a system similar to Berube's.  If you don't perform than you cant be traded, and you wont play.  You will still have to travel and practice with team for the next 3 years, away from family but not playing hockey.

 

So with the cards on the table I think Vinny will agree its in his best interest to just take the loss of money.