Flyers 2023-24: A Post-Season Appraisal

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

Well, we are not going into the post-season, something that may or may not make people happy given itsimpact on standings and draft.  Regardless, I wanted to do a post-mortem thread.  

 

To start, here's a good take by Jordan Hall.  It is the glass half-full, half-empty model:

Flyers vs. Capitals: Promise followed by drop-off, 2023-24 season ends on final day – NBC Sports Philadelphia

 

Are we better than expected? Check?  Are there some good young players? Check?  Does our PP stink?  Check--and last night, Boosh contrasted the excellence of the PK with the putrid PP.  Is our goaltending a question mark?  Yes?  We could go on.

 

My take:  We have lanced the boil of the Gordon-Vigneault-Yeo Era and back to where we were under Hakstol.  The team is playing "structured" hockey.  But as was case under Hakstol (whose winning percentage isn't that bad), we can only win low-scoring affairs in which the goaltending is above-average to excellent (contrast our sub.900 overall save to Sam's percentage in wins--often above .920), and the team effectively suppresses the opposition with blocked shots and tight D.  Otherwise, we have problems, even against teams we should beat.

 

That gets back to the DNA problem--we trade and draft for players "who make us tougher to play against," thinking that means being physical, ala Nic D, when we need snipers, finishers, and "game changers."  I hope against hope that DB and KJ get it.  We have to draft difference makers, and we should emulate Bill Zito of my backyard Panthers and make smart trades that upgrade talent, instead of trades that lock us into mediocrity for years.  As I said a few days ago, there is probably legitimate debate about Torts being the best person at this stage of development.  But a coach can only teach so much.  Rocky Thompson may be an awful power play coach.  But I don't think you have the worst PP in the league for three years running due solely to coaching.  I think our PP reflects the relatively low-caliber talent of our players.  Without that high-end talent, we will always be two years away from being two years away.

 

Howie

 

 

[mojo1917]

5 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Rocky Thompson may be an awful power play coach.  But I don't think you have the worst PP in the league for three years running due solely to coaching

Great post Howie.

I don't think Rocky Thompson is a terrible anything  (his hair is bad) he's been pretty successful in the CMJ and AHL. He can't get blood from a stone, add your favorite metaphor, the talent is not there yet. 

I really just wanted to say Rocky's hair is bad. 

 

great post, strong agree.

[OccamsRazor]

The biggest decision for this team going forward is what to do with TK.

 

He can be a huge trading chip to help bring back a few pieces that can help greatly with the rebuild.

 

As we have seen with what happened to Laughton i am afraid they won't have the balls to pull the trigger on it.

 

So we might as well prepare for his extension. So when the first season rolls around on his new 8 year deal he will be 29.

 

And they will once again have a contract they will regret in about 4 years into or less.

[FD19372]

This is a well-coached team. Some of the young players did take positive strides. These players finally got a taste of what it takes to make the playoffs, and playing meaningful games in March and April. They just aren't talented enough. It's that simple.

 

Now, Briere needs to find a sniper and a starter. Ersson is not the main reason for the Flyers not making it, but I don't think he will ever be a clear #1 starter. Offensively, getting 40 shots and only getting one or two goals is not acceptable. I would really like to see them get Reinhart in free agency. A big-time sniper.  Foerster and Poehling are good players, but are they first line players?(I would say not quite yet for Foerster, though he impressed me) No. Is Frost really good enough to be a reliable second-line player? No. Even if it isn't Reinhart, they have to find a center or wing that puts a lot of pucks in the net, besides TK and Tippett. They are not that far away..and Michkov will be here before you know it. This team should really be ready to take it to another level, at that point.

[FD19372]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

As we have seen with what happened to Laughton i am afraid they won't have the balls to pull the trigger on it.

Laughton should have been gone, at the trade deadline. He contributed basically nothing down the stretch run.

[OccamsRazor]

 

[Fuzz]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

The biggest decision for this team going forward is what to do with TK.

 

He can be a huge trading chip to help bring back a few pieces that can help greatly with the rebuild.

 

As we have seen with what happened to Laughton i am afraid they won't have the balls to pull the trigger on it.

 

So we might as well prepare for his extension. So when the first season rolls around on his new 8 year deal he will be 29.

 

And they will once again have a contract they will regret in about 4 years into or less.

THIS ^^^^

[FD19372]

34 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

THIS ^^^^

I agree about the next contract being enormous and something the Flyers shouldn't do (particularly if it's longer than 5 years), but if I can't package him for a big upgrade in goal or a younger PROVEN skilled offensive player in return, I'd hold onto him.

Edited April 17 by FD19372

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Rocky Thompson may be an awful power play coach.  But I don't think you have the worst PP in the league for three years running due solely to coaching.  I think our PP reflects the relatively low-caliber talent of our players.

 

It is entirely this.  I've said it elsewhere.   The difference between the effectiveness of the PK vs. the PP is that the PK takes hard work.   Generally, Torts has them working hard and committing, so the PK shows that.  The PP is about talent.   Sure, hard work, but a pig will work really hard; he will never fly.    You have to have the skill and then someone with the skill to work hard.  The lack of skill is loudly evident on the PP and has been for several years.   Until they draft and trade for the type you suggest, this will continue.

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

The biggest decision for this team going forward is what to do with TK.

 

He can be a huge trading chip to help bring back a few pieces that can help greatly with the rebuild.

I don't think this decision exists in a vacuum.

If Michkov is coming over early does that change the calculus for anyone?

I think it does for me. Bringing Matvei into the room with peak TK would be a good thing IMO.

 

The things that happen around the draft, if anything happens around the draft, may have some bearing on an extension for TK as well.

Are they able to move up to get a centerman? do they move some guys in hockey trades ? 

I know the management loves TK, I also know he is the most valuable asset the Flyers have. 

 

Like it did at the trade deadline, the state of the team will impact the decision making, I like that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Howie58]

I said it a few weeks ago, and it's worth noting here--Bill Meltzer is correct that the O and B may be faced with some buyout/dead cap issues in this rebuild.  I think Cam Atkinson is a good example for the coming year:

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/flyers-buy-out-atkinson-2024-offseason/#:~:text=Since his return from injury – after missing,so the Flyers would be saving some money.

 

Another candidate here might be Cal Petersen, though he could continue to get buried.  Nic D--he appears to be losing favor with Torts--wonder about him.  

 

While his is an unlikely buyout candidate, Coots value-added could be iffy.  I hope we see a rejuvenated version next year.  Otherwise, we are grossly overpaying for a 3C, and the Captain no less.  

 

 

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, Howie58 said:

While his is an unlikely buyout candidate, Coots

If you look on Capfriendly his buy out is a nightmare scenario.

 

Couturier absolutely has to come back to at least 90% Selke version of himself for that contract to cripple the team.

He was good early on this year but then really ran out of gas, it's a crap shoot as to whether this is him going forward or a learning for everyone about his workload.

[flyer4ever]

I don't look at this season as a success in any way, other than the maturing of Foerester and York. They lost their #1 goalie, and one of 2 high end prospects. The GM got blinded by a playoff chase and missed a trade deadline opportunity to gather real assets. And last, the dinosaur coach embarrassed himself and several players. 

Laughton and TK are both now diminishing assets, Coots is now just a bad contract, Atkinson has zero value, and the 2 1st rounders may not ever reach 100 games played in the NHL combined. So is the team closer to the prize now compared to last October? In reality, probably farther away. The real hope, and it is a viable hope, is the amateur scouts knock it out of the park at the draft, and the organization properly develops and drafts some future men, not little entitled turds like Gauthier.

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

I don't look at this season as a success in any way, other than the maturing of Foerester and York. They lost their #1 goalie, and one of 2 high end prospects. The GM got blinded by a playoff chase and missed a trade deadline opportunity to gather real assets. And last, the dinosaur coach embarrassed himself and several players. 

Laughton and TK are both now diminishing assets, Coots is now just a bad contract, Atkinson has zero value, and the 2 1st rounders may not ever reach 100 games played in the NHL combined. So is the team closer to the prize now compared to last October? In reality, probably farther away. The real hope, and it is a viable hope, is the amateur scouts knock it out of the park at the draft, and the organization properly develops and drafts some future men, not little entitled turds like Gauthier.

 

Do you think maybe our scouts or player personnel should, I don't know, have a conversation with a potential draft pick before drafting them?   I mean, it's still always a crap shoot, but somehow "human resources" completely screwed up on Gauthier.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

I agree about the next contract being enormous and something the Flyers shouldn't do (particularly if it's longer than 5 years), but if I can't package him for a big upgrade in goal or a younger PROVEN skilled offensive player in return, I'd hold onto him.

 

And I feel they will just try and turn around and justify it just like they did with keeping that he was just to important to them abs blah blah blah so we inked him to an 8 year 8 mill per season contract...

 

...I'd be happier if u was wrong but we'll see.

[OccamsRazor]

Brace for it you've been warned...

 

 

[flyer4ever]

18 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Do you think maybe our scouts or player personnel should, I don't know, have a conversation with a potential draft pick before drafting them?   I mean, it's still always a crap shoot, but somehow "human resources" completely screwed up on Gauthier.

Without being in the room, it seems they did their due diligence with Michkov. Will we ever know what happened to Gauthier? Was it the dinosaur coach? Was it the suits upstairs? Whatever happened, it cost them a real asset.

[flyer4ever]

12 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Brace for it you've been warned...

 

 

Another test for Danny Jones. Pass or fail?

[mojo1917]

31 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

Laughton and TK are both now diminishing assets,

If they are traded this calendar year?

I don't look at the situation quite as black and white as that.

If anything more teams may inquire about Laughton. The trade deadline by it's nature limits the amount of teams where a player can be traded.

Bubble teams aren't looking for other bubble teams players when they're pushing for a playoff spot. But maybe a team that just missed the playoffs thinks, we're a Scott Laughton on the bottom 6 away from making that next step. 

Konecny won't be a diminished asset for a few more years. 

 

I don't think the Flyers will be better next year unless sweeping changes happen and the Mad Russian makes his way to the US.  Maybe the 25 draft is stronger than this one and the carrots to Michkov's peas is found then.

 

[radoran]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

York was -3 as they lost 6-3.

 

[CoachX]

The season is over. YAY! Time to move one.

 

I welcome the off season and draft. Lets see what changes they have in store.

 

At this point, I'm looking forward to next season. I don't really care what happened this season

 

[Poulin20]

38 minutes ago, CoachX said:

The season is over. YAY! Time to move one.

 

I welcome the off season and draft. Lets see what changes they have in store.

 

At this point, I'm looking forward to next season. I don't really care what happened this season

 

As someone who invested 0 in this season emotionally, financially, and with my time, I concur with this post! 

[JR Ewing]

I guess I have a very different view from many (everybody else?) around here. I don't see the need to trade Konecny, and I think that people who are hoping for a strong young scorer or a potential starting goaltender would be very underwhelmed by the return. As ever, I go back to Al Arbour (who forgot more about hockey than I'll ever know), with his opinion on team building: "It's no secret; it's not complicated. Get good players."

 

Travis Konecny is a good player, and if the rebuild is in a good position in five years, he will only be 32. Serious injuries aside, he can be more than useful at that age, and despite what a lot of people think a rebuild constitutes, I don't think it's a good idea to shed literally every good player from the roster, as respected veterans have value.

 

This is just my view as a fan of a team that was forced to trade primed-aged players in favour of prospects and picks. It mostly doesn't work out and it just keeps the rebuild going perpetually.

 

 

Edited April 17 by JR Ewing

[Brewin Flames]

If i may give an out sider view.....

 

That Michkov thing, will he won't he, the carter hart thing, the cutter thing, all things that did/have/had the potential for a distraction, despite ALL that, torts, like him or nor, had these guys right on the brink of a psot season dance.

 

And despite not getting  help and a small late season slump, they were still right there.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

5 hours ago, Howie58 said:

 Rocky Thompson may be an awful power play coach.  But I don't think you have the worst PP in the league for three years running due solely to coaching.  I think our PP reflects the relatively low-caliber talent of our players.  Without that high-end talent, we will always be two years away from being two years away.

 

Howie

 

 

It's not just he's a terrible power play coach here, he was also a terrible power play coach in San Jose, and at the time, San Jose had Timo Maier, Logan Couture, Tomas Hertl, Erik Karlsson, Brent Burns, Evander Kane, etc.....and they finished with the worst power play in the league as well. Common denominator? Rocky Thompson. I'm looking at teams with better power plays than the Flyers this year:

 

Columbus

Chicago

Buffalo

Montreal

Anaheim

Calgary

Ottawa

San Jose

Seattle

Arizona

 

Let that sink in for a moment. Teams that the Flyers finished ahead of, had better power plays. It is a farce that the Flyers, a team with better talent than those clubs, had the worst power play in the league. I'm sorry, but that points to one thing - the coach of the power play. If the Flyers would have a 15 to 17 percent power play, they would have made the playoffs. 

 

I'm not going to slag Thompson as a coach because he's had success in major junior and the AHL. Quite frankly, I hope that when Laperriere gets fired, Thompson goes to Lehigh Valley and replaces him because Thompson can actually coach. Just don't ask him to coach a power play because his offensive concepts on the power play are truly terrible.