I can't take watching Couturier anymore he's so so slow did you

[Mario99]

see Mark Scheifele, now I know why he went ahead of Coots in the 2011 draft.

The guy can really skate, he took the puck at Jets Blue-line and just rocketed past the defenders

Made a nice move and shot on goal, now he's 20 and would wait for to mature,Coots never shows that never

[doom88]

Because of role. Couturier is utilized as a defensive forward. Accordingly, he won't get the same chances. His lack of first step is really overblown too. He's no Pavel Bure, but he's good enough, with room to improve. Patience. I've seen Berube try to expand Couturier's role since taking over, so we shall see how it affects Sean's development.

[jammer2]

@doom88  I'm all for being patient also, and he does take a LOT of defensive zone starts/draws against quality opponents....BUT, Read is not exactly chopped liver, he should be producing more pts at this juncture of his young career. LIke you said, patience must take precedence with Coots, but he has to get going....he needs to get more involved physically and make his own breaks in the offensive zone. I'm also not very impressed with the way he thinks the game, he does not seem to have much vision, almost strictly reactionary.

[doom88]

He's usually gassed by the time he gets to the offensive zone, can't fault him for that. Plus he's had some crap wingers previously. He has plenty of time, just let the chili pot do its thing, and let the chemistry develop.

[mojo1917]

He's a big guy, Couturier,  my feeling with him is he needs to work on using his frame to protect the puck better,  I do see improvement there I also see a 20 year old that has not "filled out" yet and has grown taller since we've drafted him.  I think he has had and is having physical maturation adjustment issues.  I disagree with @jammer2 regarding his brains,  I still think he's  pretty sharp, he just has issues getting the thought to his gangly growing frame.

 

there are times where if his pass gets through his linemate has 1 on 1 with the goalie but he doesn't execute on the pass, last night vs the peg i thought his line looked pretty good and he held up his  end, Read and Downie's backs weren't sore from carrying him around.

[jammer2]

@mojo1917  I guess time will tell, but I just don't see him anticipating many plays, just reacting to what has happened. I hope I'm wrong.

[hf101]

see Mark Scheifele, now I know why he went ahead of Coots in the 2011 draft.

The guy can really skate, he took the puck at Jets Blue-line and just rocketed past the defenders

Made a nice move and shot on goal, now he's 20 and would wait for to mature,Coots never shows that never

 

How much time does Scheifele play during games matched up with the number one line on the opposition?   That is Couturier's role, he's plays against Crosby, Malkin, Getzlaf, Ovechkin, Spezza etc. do you see Scheifele playing against those guys?   He plays on the PK which is solid.  Berube has recently rewarded him with PP time thus his numbers will increase.  Couturier played 21 min while Scheifele played 14min last night.  They both have 4 assists, Scheifele has one more goal than Couturier.  Couturier has the offensive skills his focus has been on his defensive play, add a little bit more muscle to his frame and Couturier will be one of the dominant forwards in the league.

[OccamsRazor]

see Mark Scheifele, now I know why he went ahead of Coots in the 2011 draft.

The guy can really skate, he took the puck at Jets Blue-line and just rocketed past the defenders

Made a nice move and shot on goal, now he's 20 and would wait for to mature,Coots never shows that never

 

 

Yes i understand your point but it's hard to compare two different type of forwards only thing they share is the title "forward" they play differnt styles and roles.

 

Yes the one thing Coots could work on more than anything is his foot speed but i see improvement.

 

To me it's like comparing Striet to Luke Schenn two different type of Dmen that is about it...the comparison ends there.

[aziz]

His lack of first step is really overblown too. He's no Pavel Bure, but he's good enough, with room to improve.

 

you know what the hopeful thing is as regards couturier's speed?  steve downie.  not as a linemate, but as an example of what can happen.  downie was an amazingly cement-skate player when he first entered the league, skating was an even bigger knock on him than temper and discipline.  he's worked on it, and while he isn't exactly fast at this point, his skating has become a complete non-issue.  if couturier can follow the same path, he'll be fine.

[doom88]

you know what the hopeful thing is as regards couturier's speed? steve downie. not as a linemate, but as an example of what can happen. downie was an amazingly cement-skate player when he first entered the league, skating was an even bigger knock on him than temper and discipline. he's worked on it, and while he isn't exactly fast at this point, his skating has become a complete non-issue. if couturier can follow the same path, he'll be fine.

Good comparison, that fits really well.

[Bakanekimiwa]

downie was a terrible skater early in his career too. he seems to be doing just fine now. he's not the smoothest, but he's effective.

[ZeZel25]

see Mark Scheifele, now I know why he went ahead of Coots in the 2011 draft.

The guy can really skate, he took the puck at Jets Blue-line and just rocketed past the defenders

Made a nice move and shot on goal, now he's 20 and would wait for to mature,Coots never shows that never

Unfortunately for Cooter, he might be going down the same path as a former Flyers rush job in Danius Zubrus. He might not even be what zooby zooby doo has become

[Clarke2Leach]

I was at that game and other than the play mentioned, Scheifele looked awful.  Actually, the talk about Coots is very similar to how Jets fans talk about Scheifele - the impatient ones anyway.  I think both are going to turn into good players given time.  Scheifele's best showing was in his first pro training camp and exhibition season while Coots showed us his stuff against the Pens in the playoffs.  They may have both created unreasonable expectations for their fans about how quick their progression is going to take.  While both have already shown they are capable of being the best player on the ice, that was a while ago for both of them. 

 

As mentioned over and over again, both these guys are going to require patience.

[flyercanuck]

@Clarke2Leach

 

 I thought he really took a big step forward in the last two rounds of the playoffs last year. He used to shy away from contact but actually thrived on it until cheapshots took him out. But guys were trying to do that to him throughout the playoffs and he just kept getting back up and filling the net.

 

 I agree, both players should end up being pretty good...and both have some pretty impatient fans knocking their progress.

[ruxpin]

@mojo1917 I guess time will tell, but I just don't see him anticipating many plays, just reacting to what has happened. I hope I'm wrong.

Jammer, my problem with what you're saying is this: we can probably agree that his skating still needs work. He's not dreadfully slow but he's not one of the faster players. He is in position more often than not, so you would think he must anticipate well to compensate or his late anticipation PLUS slower speed would render him behind the play all game long.

It just seems to me that he's at least relevant to the play enough that I don't think he lacks speed AND anticipation

[canoli]

I've been saying nothing but good things about Couturier all along. He's one of the last guys I'd trade no matter who's coming back. A kid who scores nearly 100 points in the Q two years in a row has offensive instincts that don't just disappear in the NHL...unless maybe he's forced into a defensive straightjacket. I'm starting to wonder if the Flyers should find a way to "reawaken" those instincts because it looks to me like they're deteriorating.

 

From his rookie year to now I can see the difference in how he handles the puck, how he moves up ice and in the offensive zone. He seemed to have more poise, better vision, better "sense" of the game in his first year than he does now. Back then when he crossed center ice and into the opponent's zone he found options that carried the play forward. Now he seems to struggle taking a pass in stride. If he's physically stronger today he's not using it very well: he's ridden off the puck pretty easily. Along the wall he loses more battles than he wins and if he does gain control he flings the puck away without ever really sizing up the situation (it seems to me).

 

I try not to underestimate the impact of going against Malkin, Crosby, Getzlaf, Datsyuk etc. all the time. Couturier starts most of his shifts in the Flyers' zone and defending against the top line doesn't leave much in the tank for offense. That's why I'd like to see the Flyers give him more offensive responsibility now and not "waste" him in a shutdown role. It's great having such a solid defensive forward who's only 20 but I wonder how much of his potential is falling by the wayside in the process. Couturier will develop according to how much time and effort, desire, etc. he invests. But it's up to the Flyers to put him in situations where his game can grow.

 

 

[fanaticV3.0]

0 goals in 19 games this year and 4 goals in his last 65 games. All the good defensive play in the world can't make up for that. If he was on pace for 35 points I'd be thrilled with that at this point. If the kid is no more than  3rd line center that's fine, but a part of being a third line center is two-way play.

 

If the right deal came along, I'd trade this kid in a heartbeat. I'm not trading him for nothing, but of Montreal was ever serious about moving Subban I wouldn't hesitate about dangling Couturier in front of them.

[flyercanuck]

For all the guys who think Couturier is a bust or a letdown or whatever, I mentioned this in Jacks "Couturier" thread...there are a grand total of THREE players taken in the entire 2011 draft who have put up more points than Couturier in the NHL so far.

[aziz]

but a part of being a third line center is two-way play.

 

interestingly, he has more points that everyone else taken in the first round of his draft class, except for the 1st and 2nd overall picks.  4th most of that entire draft.  granted, he has played in more NHL games than anyone else in the entire draft class, but....he has played in more NHL games than anyone else in that entire draft class.

 

a 20 year old kid, 85% of his draft-mates have not even stepped foot in the NHL.  85.8%, to be exact.  to decide that what he is now is what he'll always be is silly.  if that were the case, then the 2011 draft was a bust from top to bottom, with the very specific exceptions of the first two picks.  his draftmates haven't developed to the point to warrant NHL ice time, but some of them will.  that's the thing with 20 year olds, they learn and grow.  couturier hasn't developed to the point of being a prolific scorer, but that isn't to say he can't.  he is further along than the vast majority of his peers.  might not be saying much, but there it is.

[aziz]

but of Montreal was ever serious about moving Subban I wouldn't hesitate about dangling Couturier in front of them.

 

despite everything i said, i agree there.

[off_the_post]

For all the guys who think Couturier is a bust or a letdown or whatever, I mentioned this in Jacks "Couturier" thread...there are a grand total of THREE players taken in the entire 2011 draft who have put up more points than Couturier in the NHL so far.

Weak draft class.  Funny I was just checking up the same stats to see where he fit in.  I still which the Flyers selected Douggie Hamilton though.

[flyercanuck]

@off_the_post

 

I'll give it a few more years before I call it weak. But it was no 79, 88, 03 or 13 though

[FreakinFlyersFan]

You guys are hard on Couts who is only 20yrs old. His defensive play is the best on the team he just needs to put a few in the net as well.

Flyers have a good PK because of Couturier as well.

[hf101]

see Mark Scheifele, now I know why he went ahead of Coots in the 2011 draft.

The guy can really skate, he took the puck at Jets Blue-line and just rocketed past the defenders

Made a nice move and shot on goal, now he's 20 and would wait for to mature,  Coots never shows that never

 

Bump.

 

Couturier is one of the more dominant players on the ice today.      Did you see that shorty?  ....  yep... NEVER  

 

   

[flyerrod]

If the right deal came along, I'd trade this kid in a heartbeat.