trading deadline Hold, Fold or Raise?

[Lunatic]

The Flyers are in a very interesting position with the trading deadline this Monday. They are 1-3 points behind Pittsburgh, depending on the outcome of the Pens game today, and the Pens will have a game in hand. There is little doubt that they could use a first line left-winger. Would the addition of a top line left-winger push them into the playoffs and beyond? On the other hand, Streit is rested and rounding into shape, Gagne has  looked good recently,  and there are a number of Flyers, Medevdev, Schultz, Read and Raffl who might attract interest from playoff teams. Do they trade for draft choices, or other players? It is out of character for the Flyers to tank, but in reality it is unlikely that they will make the playoffs without a top line left-winger. And if they do make the playoffs, even with a top line left winger, they probably won’t advance past the first round. If you were Hextall, what would you do, hold, fold or raise?

[elmatus]

Hex has already said he would not be looking to add this year.

 

Also, that Jake guy isn't so bad...

[RJ8812]

Hextall isn't acquiring anyone for a playoff push. He should do whatever he can to make this team better in the future. 

[sarsippius]

I wouldn't say that not selling your soul at the deadline is tanking. I see value in continuing to look for LW help if course,  but not with any playoff push in mind. And if I do trade for LW help it's going to be a young player on a rookie contract or a prospect I'm going to develop, not to try and win now....and it's going to be with a team desperate for D help so I can dump a contract on some poor bastard doing a Homer impression. Any trade makes the team younger and cap lighter, without moving the short list of untouchables, or I'm not interested.

[Jam1986]

Stay the course keep the kids. Kids must do time on farm! Earn not Given! 

[flyer4ever]

Sooner than later. If you are rebuilding, REBUILD. Blow it up and rebuild. Trying to sneak in the playoffs for the revenue is not rebuilding. It is mediocrity. Get rid of the dead wood, put some guys on the ice who will try their best, and lose. That is not tanking. That is rebuilding.

[icehole]

If he was serious about making this team good enough to make a little run, it should have been done in the offseason.  He's obviously showing that he really doesn't care about this season so why do anything now?

It's not tanking but it's also not that different.  He's not making the team bad on purpose but he's also not trying his hardest to make the team good either.

[jackhole]

Well, 3 games left against Pittsburgh.  That is likely to determine the fate of the flyers.  That'll be the 1st round of playoffs effectively for the team. 

 

I ship out a contract or 2 for picks if I can, we have enough spare parts that are commensurate, and battle on...

[flyercanuck]

Hextall isn't Holmgren, thinking because you won 2 it's go for it time. There's actually a plan in place and it doesn't include going all in every...single...year. He's trying to build a winner from the backend out, just like real teams. He's putting pieces into place. He's being proactive, not reactive. 

 

Look at what Hextalls two drafts are doing compared the what Homers did..he's got us an apparent top pairing defence, a hell of a forward, not one, not two, but THREE legitimate goalie prospects, another potential top 6 winger or maybe three...in TWO drafts. Holmgren couldn't come up with that in his career as a gm.

[BluPuk]

I voted raise. I think they should go after a winger at the deadline if they can get a reasonable deal. Pittsburgh seems very fragile right now (the Kessel effect ) and a little extra push is all Philly will need to catch and pass them. 

 

Having said that, I hope the Pens make the play-offs so the Leafs get their first round draft pick....

[WordsOfWisdom]

It's times like these that I ask: What would Brian Burke do?  

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

9 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

It's times like these that I ask: What would Brian Burke do?  

 

That wouldn't be anything like "What Would Brian Boitano Would Do"?, would it?

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

3 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

That wouldn't be anything like "What Would Brian Boitano Would Do"?, would it?

 

 

 

Exactly! LOL.  

 

Naturally, the answer is:

 

He would trade the Flyers 1st round draft pick to Toronto for P.A. Parenteau and go for it this year!  

[peter puck]

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Exactly! LOL.  

 

Naturally, the answer is:

 

He would trade the Flyers 1st round draft pick to Toronto for P.A. Parenteau and go for it this year!  

 

You forgot the second rounder. If you going all Homer like you just gotta sweeten it with one.

[elmatus]

It's a bit of a moot point when you consider what LWers are available right now. None of them scream top line to me. Also, PHI's top two lines are really not the reason they're out of a PO spot. That honour goes to the bottom six and a rather uninspiring defensive lineup.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

It's a bit of a moot point when you consider what LWers are available right now. None of them scream top line to me. Also, PHI's top two lines are really not the reason they're out of a PO spot. That honour goes to the bottom six and a rather uninspiring defensive lineup.

 

 

The porous defense ain't helping matters either...and forwards having to expend so much energy backchecking becuase the defense can hold onto the puck and get it out and up to the forwards.

 

It's almost the which came first the chicken or the egg?

[icehole]

20 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Hextall isn't Holmgren, thinking because you won 2 it's go for it time. There's actually a plan in place and it doesn't include going all in every...single...year. He's trying to build a winner from the backend out, just like real teams. He's putting pieces into place. He's being proactive, not reactive. 

 

Look at what Hextalls two drafts are doing compared the what Homers did..he's got us an apparent top pairing defence, a hell of a forward, not one, not two, but THREE legitimate goalie prospects, another potential top 6 winger or maybe three...in TWO drafts. Holmgren couldn't come up with that in his career as a gm.

I agree with his drafts...he's gotten some nice pieces.  Why can't he have good drafts and put a team out there to compete though?  Washington has been good since they got ovechkin.  They haven't been top contenders lately but they always seem to be in the mix.  They added orpik to their defense, oshie to their offense, and on of the top playoff competitors in the past 20 years.  Mike Richards is still nice to have on your 3rd or 4th lines too.  Did they mortgage their future to be the top team?  They look like they have some young talent in place.  They have some young Russians that are better than all but 2 or 3 flyers.

And now we have Raffl extended another 3 years.  Is he part of the rebuild?  Can't we bring anyone else up from the phantoms that would be better?  If nobody on the phantoms is a better option than Raffl for the next three years, what does that say about the talent they have?

On the surface, it looks like Hextal has done a nice job, but nothing he has done has made the team better yet.  Ghost is a Homer product, phantoms can't make the big team, and juniors are just guesses right now.  Meanwhile, the big team is fighting for a playoff spot, but I don't think anyone's really excited about it.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

I agree with his drafts...he's gotten some nice pieces.  Why can't he have good drafts and put a team out there to compete though?  Washington has been good since they got ovechkin.  They haven't been top contenders lately but they always seem to be in the mix.  They added orpik to their defense, oshie to their offense, and on of the top playoff competitors in the past 20 years.  Mike Richards is still nice to have on your 3rd or 4th lines too.  Did they mortgage their future to be the top team?  They look like they have some young talent in place.  They have some young Russians that are better than all but 2 or 3 flyers.

And now we have Raffl extended another 3 years.  Is he part of the rebuild?  Can't we bring anyone else up from the phantoms that would be better?  If nobody on the phantoms is a better option than Raffl for the next three years, what does that say about the talent they have?

On the surface, it looks like Hextal has done a nice job, but nothing he has done has made the team better yet.  Ghost is a Homer product, phantoms can't make the big team, and juniors are just guesses right now.  Meanwhile, the big team is fighting for a playoff spot, but I don't think anyone's really excited about it.

 

 

Hextall has been gm for 2 years. He's spent a lot of energy just trying to dig himself out of the crater that Holmgren left the team in. His draft picks are still teenagers. 

 

Sure Washington is good. They're also one of the most underachieving franchise in hockey. They may have got it right finally this year, but the Hawks showed them yesterday beating up on the lameass east doesn't mean squat.

 

I don't want the Flyers to be "good". I've seen good, plenty of times....decades of it. I want great. I think Hextall does too. It's not something you rush into. Homer thought it was.

[icehole]

31 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

Hextall has been gm for 2 years. He's spent a lot of energy just trying to dig himself out of the crater that Holmgren left the team in. His draft picks are still teenagers. 

 

Sure Washington is good. They're also one of the most underachieving franchise in hockey. They may have got it right finally this year, but the Hawks showed them yesterday beating up on the lameass east doesn't mean squat.

 

I don't want the Flyers to be "good". I've seen good, plenty of times....decades of it. I want great. I think Hextall does too. It's not something you rush into. Homer thought it was.

I think Holmgren actually had a good formula until the last year or two of his duties as GM.  The NMC caught up to him.  Those kinds of deals left the flyers in a tough spot.  People get too hung up on trading away picks and prospects for proven talent though.  Is there a deal that Holmgren made that jumps out at you, where the flyers gave away a prospect for a high priced vet, and the prospect really flourishes, and the vet doesn't contribute for a few years?  I'm sure it has happened but I can't think of one off the top of my head.

The Hawks are a good example of what you want but I think they are past the point where you think of them as that bad team that doesnt trade away assets to stay competitive.  They're constantly turning over the roster and bringing in vets or rentals.  They had a busy week again last week.  They've just been good at it over the past 8 years.

What makes a team great?  Do they have to win a cup, do they have to win 3 cups in six years, or do they have to have the 2nd highest winning % in NHL history?  I don't know if the flyers are still 2nd, but to me, that's why I've become such a fan.  I don't know much about the two cup teams nor do I really care.  I care about winning and being entertained every year.  I haven't been entertained for 3 years now and I'm losing interest.

[FD19372]

Selling, subtracting and dumping salary should be what this deadline is all about. If Hextall can get any kind of decent draft picks for Read, who is an annual underachiever, or Umberger or Streit who are aging, (or MacDonald who flat out stinks) then they should it. They need to be big players in the summer FA market, and try and sign a veteran UFA dman like Yandle or Goligoski, and add a little scoring depth.

[JJMason33]

I would like to see moves to gain as many draft picks as possible and to make a deal that would see us land a young offensive player with a lot of upside (Yakupov or Drouin).

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

For all we know..."All Quiet on the Trade Front" confirms the suspicion many here have had for ages: Our pickins are slim.  Hexy won't give up youth or picks....the vets available aren't sought after.  I agree with prior posters that the summer may bring some excitement or pickups.  

[Howie58]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

Hextall has been gm for 2 years. He's spent a lot of energy just trying to dig himself out of the crater that Holmgren left the team in. His draft picks are still teenagers. 

 

Sure Washington is good. They're also one of the most underachieving franchise in hockey. They may have got it right finally this year, but the Hawks showed them yesterday beating up on the lameass east doesn't mean squat.

 

I don't want the Flyers to be "good". I've seen good, plenty of times....decades of it. I want great. I think Hextall does too. It's not something you rush into. Homer thought it was.

FC and Colleagues:

 

I am seeing from my backyard Panthers that it may take 3-5 years to recycle and rebuild.  In the case of the Flyers, there is an unspoken problem that I've raised before but raise again--is there a need to reprogram from big, semi-skilled to big, skilled, and fast.  I am probably oversimplifying. But the DNA of the franchise has been mucker-grinder. Even Giroux--with all his points--is more an assist guy than a game-breaker. I suspect Hexy knows this.  But for all I know, many of the Phantoms represent the old school.  One way or the other....Four+plus decades of thinking won't change in two years.  

 

Howie

 

[mojo1917]

On 2/28/2016 at 7:58 AM, icehole said:

If he was serious about making this team good enough to make a little run, it should have been done in the offseason.  He's obviously showing that he really doesn't care about this season so why do anything now?

It's not tanking but it's also not that different.  He's not making the team bad on purpose but he's also not trying his hardest to make the team good either.

I think this is pretty fair.

I do think giving Medvedev a try and keeping Shultz around was a nod to being competitive. If things went great maybe they sneak into the tournament but they wouldn't be awful while "waiting out" the bad contracts .

[briere48]

4 hours ago, icehole said:

I think Holmgren actually had a good formula until the last year or two of his duties as GM.  The NMC caught up to him.  Those kinds of deals left the flyers in a tough spot.  People get too hung up on trading away picks and prospects for proven talent though.  Is there a deal that Holmgren made that jumps out at you, where the flyers gave away a prospect for a high priced vet, and the prospect really flourishes, and the vet doesn't contribute for a few years?  I'm sure it has happened but I can't think of one off the top of my head.

The Hawks are a good example of what you want but I think they are past the point where you think of them as that bad team that doesnt trade away assets to stay competitive.  They're constantly turning over the roster and bringing in vets or rentals.  They had a busy week again last week.  They've just been good at it over the past 8 years.

What makes a team great?  Do they have to win a cup, do they have to win 3 cups in six years, or do they have to have the 2nd highest winning % in NHL history?  I don't know if the flyers are still 2nd, but to me, that's why I've become such a fan.  I don't know much about the two cup teams nor do I really care.  I care about winning and being entertained every year.  I haven't been entertained for 3 years now and I'm losing interest.

 

that's what im afraid of what's going to happen, is that hextall is going to be so fixated  on the younger guys and he's never going to trade them to make this team competitive, i mean i understand he's getting rid of vets to dump big salary but to just replace them with younger players for sake of it is a big mistake, this offseason if hextall doesnt add any vets not talking about overpaying, they could go backwards.

 

chicago is always trying to add vets and they are not afraid to do it because they know the young players could hit a big wall and not produce in the playoffs. that's why they are always competitive because they are not fixated on young players, they always try to add experience players.