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Howie58

A Bit Underwhelmed (and Concerned)

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Greetings:

 

Today's signings and trades leave me concerned that in relative and absolute terms, we aren't progressing, unless our youngins really materialize in a year or two.  While Pittsburgh may be taking a step backward, the rest of the Metro is advancing.  Let's hope I'm wrong.  

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Honestly, @Howie58, I don't think the Flyer fanbase has a ton to be concerned about at this stage of the game.
Sure, the signings haven't been blockbusters, but really, did you want the Flyers to make a splash for the sake of making a splash?

I still think they are progressing pretty well and putting faith in the younger players that they have.
If you want to be concerned, I'd go with still having Konecny and Provorov without contracts....but even those two, I can't see the Flyers not getting something done with them.

Out are MacDonald, Schlemko, and Gudas on defense and in are Niskanen and Braun. 
That's not bad at all for improving, even if only marginally, the blue line.

And that also means the younger defensemen will likely be given bigger responsibilities...hence why I think Provorov will get a nice deal done soon.

 

As for the rest of the Metro, sure, some teams have made some nice gains too (Rangers and Devils especially), but even they have big, big question marks, and their signings may not even pan out for them.

 

To me, the biggest deficiencies of the Flyers over the last several years has been in goal and on defense.
Carter Hart has already proven last season he can be the answer in goal.... guys like Elliot and Lyon, they are strictly there to give Hart some games off.
And now, the blue line seems to be rounding into a bit better shape with smarter players, better puck movers, and the youth finally starting to emerge.

 

Not saying you as a Flyers fan shouldn't expect more, but I'd hold off on the concern right now.
Barring their offense taking a complete nosedive, I'd expect Philly to play pretty competitive games with the roster they currently have.....and things may not even be done "simmering" if you get my drift...some more bodies may yet exit, with others coming in.
As long as no complete airhead contracts are signed, I think the Flyers are doing alright so far.
 

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They are tight to the cap after paying their own RFAs...would love to see a physical winger like Maroon or Ferland. The Caps and Devils are loading up with scrappers...one of these 2 could bring g a few goals and some grit.

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2 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

I thought the Flyers big splash was last week?

 

 

Kevin Hayes?
Yea.....that money for that player is a bit high, but he isn't a terrible player.
50-60'ish point guy, takes minimal penalties, and is about average in possession metrics, not bad as a player...though many will point out that those types of players shouldn't be making north of 7M...and they'd be right.

But you know as well as I, that FA simply don't come cheap now, and the Flyers wanted to have an established, reasonably good player added onto their roster, even if they had to overpay a bit to get him.

Kevin Hayes may be the classic "like the player, hate the contract" situation.
Still though, not like Philly invested 7 or 8 years in a guy older than 30 and with questionable skills.

They wouldn't do that...would they? ;)

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Yeah, I wouldn't be too concerned with lack of splash today. For one, the Flyers were out of cap space. Second, they already made their moves. Hayes improves the club. He's a good even strength player. I'm not pleased with the cap hit or the term, but he will help the team in the immediate term. Niskanen and Braun are at least upgrades on MacDonald and Hagg, but I'm not sure of anything past that.

 

As I said a week or so ago though, the Flyers weren't moving forward on the strength of Kevin Hayes. They have to trust in their young players, Provorov, Ghost, Myers, Sanheim, Patrick, Lindblom, Frost, etc. It's when the kids hit their potential that the team will show marked improvements. It's the risk you take when you are a draft and develop club. The reward is that your window tends to stay open a lot longer, and you have a better chance of making multiple runs.

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6 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

I thought the Flyers big splash was last week?

 

JR--I think it was a "semi-big" signing but candidly, I'd have tried some of the youngins out before getting Hayes here for an eternity.  But...life goes on.

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Just now, Howie58 said:

JR--I think it was a "semi-big" signing but candidly, I'd have tried some of the youngins out before getting Hayes here for an eternity.  But...life goes on.

 

I'm referring not only to Hayes, but the series of trades they made to bring in that centre, and also partially re-make the defense. Now, whether those moves will work or not, time will tell. I think it's better than making the big splash on July 1. That's usually more trouble than anything else.

 

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10 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Honestly, @Howie58, I don't think the Flyer fanbase has a ton to be concerned about at this stage of the game.
Sure, the signings haven't been blockbusters, but really, did you want the Flyers to make a splash for the sake of making a splash?

I still think they are progressing pretty well and putting faith in the younger players that they have.
If you want to be concerned, I'd go with still having Konecny and Provorov without contracts....but even those two, I can't see the Flyers not getting something done with them.

Out are MacDonald, Schlemko, and Gudas on defense and in are Niskanen and Braun. 
That's not bad at all for improving, even if only marginally, the blue line.

And that also means the younger defensemen will likely be given bigger responsibilities...hence why I think Provorov will get a nice deal done soon.

 

As for the rest of the Metro, sure, some teams have made some nice gains too (Rangers and Devils especially), but even they have big, big question marks, and their signings may not even pan out for them.

 

To me, the biggest deficiencies of the Flyers over the last several years has been in goal and on defense.
Carter Hart has already proven last season he can be the answer in goal.... guys like Elliot and Lyon, they are strictly there to give Hart some games off.
And now, the blue line seems to be rounding into a bit better shape with smarter players, better puck movers, and the youth finally starting to emerge.

 

Not saying you as a Flyers fan shouldn't expect more, but I'd hold off on the concern right now.
Barring their offense taking a complete nosedive, I'd expect Philly to play pretty competitive games with the roster they currently have.....and things may not even be done "simmering" if you get my drift...some more bodies may yet exit, with others coming in.
As long as no complete airhead contracts are signed, I think the Flyers are doing alright so far.
 

That is a thoughtful post, Madam TFG.  I hope you are right.  The A affiliate is being stocked with fringe NHL'ers, which seems OK.  I was a senior in high school during the last Cup.  It's unclear if I will live to see another.  

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3 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

JR--I think it was a "semi-big" signing but candidly, I'd have tried some of the youngins out before getting Hayes here for an eternity.  But...life goes on.

They threw their new coach a bone. It is what it is, but I think it a contract for too many years.

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15 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

That is a thoughtful post, Madam TFG.  I hope you are right.  The A affiliate is being stocked with fringe NHL'ers, which seems OK.  I was a senior in high school during the last Cup.  It's unclear if I will live to see another.  

i keep thinking i was 1 when they last won the cup, but even i wasn't born that long ago. the moves today don't faze me too much—restocking the A makes me think they've figured most of their D prospects are about to graduate full time (and Hagg or Ghost are about to be traded). I can't see them moving Ghost for a 3RW, so I'm guessing Hagg. If we'd signed Hayes today instead of 2 weeks ago we'd probably be feeling like we got the guy we wanted. And would this board have melted down if we paid Panarin 11.6m/yr?

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Not worried.  Didn't expect much today given that Fletcher has said he wants to get his RFAs in order before hitting UFA.  Nothing happened today that made me think they missed the boat on someone.  Some of today's deals shed interesting light (good and bad) on some of the deals Fletcher already made.  

 

Before assessing the summer of Fletcher, I want to see what he does with the RFAs.  Also, they now have a glut of d-men.  Have to think someone is getting moved.  I also think I'd be fine with leaving 3RW open with the hope that maybe one of the kids could fill that spot out of camp.

 

All that said, as of now, I'm mixed on the summer of Fletcher.  It's not so much the players he brought in, but I can't help but think he left something on the table in each deal.  I also don't understand the Schlemko move.  And I'm a little bothered by the Talbott/Elliott stuff, but whatever.  I don't feel great about Hart/Elliott as a tandem next year.  Have a real bad feeling about that.  

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1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

Today's signings and trades leave me concerned that in relative and absolute terms, we aren't progressing, unless our youngins really materialize in a year or two.  While Pittsburgh may be taking a step backward, the rest of the Metro is advancing.  Let's hope I'm wrong.  

Coaching is better

 

Defense is better

 

Goalie is better 

 

Front office still blows goats

 

Overall,  we are heading in the right direction

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, vis said:

Also, they now have a glut of d-men.  Have to think someone is getting moved. 

 

With Hak in Toronto, I'm hoping to dump off Hagg up there. They still need defense.

 

Edit: or not. Just saw they got Barrie. That gives them room for Marner, but damn are they going to struggle next year.

Edited by AJgoal

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55 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

With Hak in Toronto, I'm hoping to dump off Hagg up there. They still need defense.

 

Edit: or not. Just saw they got Barrie. That gives them room for Marner, but damn are they going to struggle next year.

Yeah, they are out of the running as a trade partner on defense.  

 

Leafs still have to sign Ceci and Kerfoot.  That will cost them some of Marner's money.  Still think they are screwed.

 

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3 hours ago, CoachX said:

Front office still blows goats

 

Amen to that NMflyer!

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y

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good read..

 

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18 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

Today's signings and trades leave me concerned that in relative and absolute terms, we aren't progressing, unless our youngins really materialize in a year or two.  While Pittsburgh may be taking a step backward, the rest of the Metro is advancing.  Let's hope I'm wrong.  

 

The Rangers will have a really good first line and their defense looks very good for a year or two... IF they can sign Trouba. 

The Devils are the scary ones and more because I hate the devils, probably even more than I hate the Penguins, but damn it's close.

Somehow they lucked out and got Hall for a steal, won the lottery twice in three years and no one seemed to care that they were so mysteriously atrocious last year.  How is it that Ray Shero has so much sketchy pull in this league to make the powers that be conveniently look the other way when questionable things start to happen for the teams under him?

 

He's essentially doing the same thing he did in Pittsburgh by stockpiling first/second overalls and somehow winning the lottery when his team shouldn't even be entered into it.  I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS. Why the league wants there to be a NJ devils so badly?   WTF cares?  They ruined hockey in the 90's, forcing the league to change the rules dozens of times to try to increase scoring and in the end there's even less scoring and worse superstars than there was then

 

What scares me even more about the Devils is that they're barely at the cap floor and they don't even have a full D squad under contract yet which means they could come gunning for Provorov with an offer sheet.  

 

The Caps, Islanders, and Canes don't feel "better" to me really. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, vis said:

Yeah, they are out of the running as a trade partner on defense.  

 

Leafs still have to sign Ceci and Kerfoot.  That will cost them some of Marner's money.  Still think they are screwed.

 

 

Somehow' Toronto's been gifted a position where they're even close to pulling this off.  Unloading Marleau was a good move and even with the first they got in return, Carolina should get some big love from Leafs fans this year.  The contracts that Kapanen and Johnson signed for make utterly no sense.  They make Wayne Simmonds and Travis Sanheim's sweetheart deals look like highway robbery.

 

They need only need  2-3 million in cap space to sign Marner.  If they wait until after the first game to do so, they'll get almost $5.5million in cap relief for LTIR Horton.  So done deal.  

 

The problem for them (as you point out) is that their defense sucks.  Big time.  They had to let pieces go and they don't have much to replace them with.  So yeah, Hagg could make sense.  Small Cap Hit, decent NHL player.  What on earth are they going to give the Flyers back though that we'd want and isn't going to feel like Fletcher doing more favors for the enemy.  

 

 

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I'm also in the underwhelmed category.

 

IN: Hayes, Braun, Niskanen, Pitlick

OUT: MacDonald, Gudas, Lehtera, Hartman

 

So on paper, we're a better team than last year. If Hart, Patrick, Lindblom, and TK can take the next step, that would help.

 

But overall, it feels second-tier improvement. We didn't add any top level talent. 

 

On top of that, Fletch has replenished the AHL vets with a number of guys familiar to Fletch and Flahr from the Minnesota days. I have nothing against Minnesota per se, but I wouldn't want to emulate them. They have been nothing special.

 

Plus, with adding 4 defensemen to the Phantoms, Meltzer mentions that it may take a spot away from Hogberg who was expected to be getting experience there.

 

A lot of safe, unsexy moves.

 

We'll see.

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

They need only need  2-3 million in cap space to sign Marner.  If they wait until after the first game to do so, they'll get almost $5.5million in cap relief for LTIR Horton.  So done deal.  

Forgot about the Horton relief.  So how does this work mechanically?  They can’t sign Marner now (and their other FAs) because it would put them over the cap by more than 10%?  So they have to wait until after the start of the season to sign him?

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

What on earth are they going to give the Flyers back though that we'd want and isn't going to feel like Fletcher doing more favors for the enemy.

Nothing, really.  Of course Fletcher would be doing a favor here.  Everyone knows the Flyers have a glut of dmen and need to trade bodies.  Unless some other team really needs a dman or likes one of our guys, I imagine any trade is going to be underwhelming.  

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38 minutes ago, brelic said:

Plus, with adding 4 defensemen to the Phantoms, Meltzer mentions that it may take a spot away from Hogberg who was expected to be getting experience there.

 

This won't have much to do with it if they are even going to be anything worth developing they get signed after their year is over with in the SHL. Phantoms only have 4  D men on the books for 2020-21. So Hogberg and Bernhardt may get their chance next year.

 

Or they could be left unsigned. At this points it isn't the biggest worry. They have Zamula, Wylie, Kalnyuk and Ginning coming in.

 

And maybe St. Ivany if he chooses to sign. So not sure if Hogberg and Bernhardt haven't been passed on the development ladder. 

 

They were 5th and 7th round picks certainly won't be the first who didn't pan out. I just want them to sign the best talent.

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

If they wait until after the first game to do so, they'll get almost $5.5million in cap relief for LTIR Horton. 

 

They don't have to wait till after the first game they can do it all at the same time. No waiting needed.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, brelic said:

But overall, it feels second-tier improvement. We didn't add any top level talent. 

I hear you, but who did you expect them to have a realistic shot at?  Even if they didn’t sign Hayes, I don’t think Duchene or Panarin we’re realistic options.  Who do you think they missed out on?  One player I would have targeted (before Hayes) was Pavelski.  That’s maybe the one player who I wonder about whether the Flyers kicked enough tires on.  Maybe they did and concluded he wanted to stay in the West.  Who knows?  But I’m not really seeing someone I wished they signed that was a realistic target.  

 

Outside of the Subban trade, I’m not sure there is much that could have been available that way.  Maybe the Kadri trade would have been interesting to me instead of Hayes.  I don’t hate Kadri as much as some, though I wonder how he would have done as a #2 here.  

Edited by vis

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st. louis didnt make big splashes and won the cup, i think the fanbase is still living in pre 90s era where we can get every star possible and not getting in this era, that we cant because of the salary cap, it's not about making the flashy signings anymore, it's about making the right ones focusing on cheap depth players that can fit in the cap, if they just make big flashy signings, alot of things can go wrong like losing alot of players and relying on phantom players to fix this team, that could really make it worse since the pressure is on them to step up which is a bad idea.

 

i mean anyone that actually watched this past year's team before the moves were made, relying on the phantom players, no one stepped up, it put pressure on hart which caused him to collapse, which results in more losing. do i think fletch is done? no, i think he will make more moves, he will add more vets in cause the young players cant play yet. im very confident this team will do better, if not then adjustments will be made, no firings probably just more young players going back to phantoms and just adding more vets. a flashy move wont fix it.

 

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      I thought the Flyers big splash was last week?  
    • 4
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      Yeah, I wouldn't be too concerned with lack of splash today. For one, the Flyers were out of cap space. Second, they already made their moves. Hayes improves the club. He's a good even strength player. I'm not pleased with the cap hit or the term, but he will help the team in the immediate term. Niskanen and Braun are at least upgrades on MacDonald and Hagg, but I'm not sure of anything past that.   As I said a week or so ago though, the Flyers weren't moving forward on the strength of
    • 4
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