Official: Hayes traded to Blues for 2024 6th RD

[radoran]

57 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

I can't help but feel, btw, that if the shoe were on the other foot, and the Flyers were bringing in a decent #2 centre for $3.5M (with half of his salary retained) in exchange for a 6th, any talk of him being a distraction would be brushed aside pretty casually.

 

I'd be thrilled if they brought in a decent #2C to replace Hayes.

 

They've needed one since they signed him.

 

It's not like we're not familiar with how Rangers and Jets fans felt about "losing" Kevin Hayes.

 

He's really a 3C and in that role for the $3.XM the Blues are paying, terrific.

 

He comes out and puts up a career year? Bully for him.

 

You're maybe overlooking the recent past where they traded draft picks WITH Gotstobethere to get rid of him and then followed it up trading another roster player and more picks to get Ristolainen.

 

This was in pursuit of getting better.

 

As addition by subtraction goes, I'll take "under getting" on Hayes.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Well, now it's down to DeAngelo. I have no idea what the league will do. I know San Filippo was reporting that the two teams did talk to the league and there will be resolution. If that is indeed the case, I'm expecting that there's probably going to be additional pieces added to the deal to make it more palatable to the league. Maybe DeAngelo, the salary retention and a fringe prospect/player for a half decent prospect and late draft pick.

Edited June 27, 2023 by BobbyClarkeFan16

[JR Ewing]

10 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I'd be thrilled if they brought in a decent #2C to replace Hayes.

 

They've needed one since they signed him.

 

It's not like we're not familiar with how Rangers and Jets fans felt about "losing" Kevin Hayes.

 

He's really a 3C and in that role for the $3.XM the Blues are paying, terrific.

 

He comes out and puts up a career year? Bully for him.

 

Again; you seem to be operating under the idea that I think Hayes is amazing or un-tradeable. No, not at all. I don't think he's the type of player you build around, and I sh|t all over the signing on this site the day it happened. I just don't see the opening of his roster spot to be of $3.5Mx3 in value. I don't think he reaches the level of distraction and dysfunction that it's worth any and ever cost to delete him from the roster. That's Dick Allen territory, and he's not close to that.

 

 

10 minutes ago, radoran said:

You're maybe overlooking the recent past where they traded draft picks WITH Gotstobethere to get rid of him and then followed it up trading another roster player and more picks to get Ristolainen.

 

This was in pursuit of getting better.

 

No, that's some of the bleeding of talent I was talking about, with more going out than coming in.

[GrittyForever]

5 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Well, now it's down to DeAngelo. I have no idea what the league will do. I know San Filippo was reporting that the two teams did talk to the league and there will be resolution. If that is indeed the case, I'm expecting that there's probably going to be additional pieces added to the deal to make it more palatable to the league. Maybe DeAngelo, the salary retention and a fringe prospect/player for a half decent prospect and late draft pick.

Nah, it'll just wait until July 9th. Means they can't get a draft pick in this year's draft and it'll be a prospect. 

 

If they want, Carolina could just draft whoever Briere wants in the whatever round and then trade him. It'll be a handshake agreement but unlikely a GM stiffs another GM this way. Word gets around and relationships are built. It'll be fine, he's going to be gone. 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

Not Bud Light?

 

[Cheesesteak]

4 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Danny B's hands were tied by the Three Flyer Stooges..Holmgren, Scott and Chuckles. He got what he could.

[radoran]

15 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Again; you seem to be operating under the idea that I think Hayes is amazing or un-tradeable

 

Sorry if that's true. Not my intent. I just don't particularly care for the player.

 

16 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

I just don't see the opening of his roster spot to be of $3.5Mx3 in value.

 

Who's value?

 

Briere effectively is saying "we project we don't need that $3.5M for the next three years but we can use $3.5M in more productive ways in the meantime."

 

I made the comparison to the Ghost trade to say that in getting (however meagre) a draft asset instead of paying draft assets to move the player - especially following a publicly muffed trade - benefits Briere with a roster spot, cap space, and a draft pick; benefits Hayes by being moved respectfully; and we'll see how the Blues feel.

 

The Ghost of Sean Couturier will likely make up Kevin Hayes' purported role and impact easily. Especially as Hayes wasn't going to be played in that role.

 

Again, benefitted the team and the player costing mainly money that they likely won't need anyway.

 

Win.

[CoachX]

I think @JR Ewing makes a good point in that many players were jettisoned for being "cancerous" with the return being less productive. The difference this time is it just isn't getting rid of an attitude/overpaid player in hopes that someone else deluvers. In this particular case its a real rebuild. Its been made clear that subtraction is a necessary first step. That means you have to clean the table. If a couple of dollars fall in the trash because you couldn't see them through the garbage, so be it. Now the table is clear and you can see what you are working with 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I'm really holding my breath on Couturier. I'm really not sure how his back will hold up, but he seems motivated and more important, he said on April 25th that he is physically 100% now. If he's healed physically (and we're talking his knees as well), at the very least he becomes a major asset in a number of ways. I'm hoping for the best, prepared for the worst and think it will be something in between. Yep, mediocrity.....

[GratefulFlyers]

50%. Oh well. It's a little disappointing that Briere couldn't do better but what a relief that Hayes is off the roster. And that 6R pick next year will surely be another Zetterberg.

[mojo1917]

13 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Not Bud Light?

what does this mean?

 

[Tomdog]

All I can say is you Philly guys are lucky you don’t have to deal with the cap recapture penalty that the Wild got saddled with. At least you have options on moving away from problem players. 

[CoachX]

23 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

50%. Oh well. It's a little disappointing that Briere couldn't do better but what a relief that Hayes is off the roster. And that 6R pick next year will surely be another Zetterberg.

Disappointed that this was the market for Hayes, or that DB didn't do a better job?

[mojo1917]

17 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

Last year, when Kevin Hayes was sitting on the bench, the Flyers scored 43% of the goals, and when he was on the ice they scored 49% of the goals. Unless he demanded a trade, I really don't understand this. I'll go further than that and say, that unless Hayes requested a trade, I think this a really dumb deal.

 

Yes, Hayes' contract was for too much and too long (and I said so the day it was signed) but somebody has to play those minutes, and if that replacement comes in at $3.5M, you're spending just as much as you were for Hayes. You have to hope he can saw off the competition and, at that price point, they may well not do it.

 

I think the rookie GM got taken to the woodshed on this one.

 

If he was, I hope he's learned from it.

I don't know that I think Danny needs to buy a new pair of pants though.

Torts wasn't digging the Kevin Hayes experience. After an early healthy scratch; He demoted him to the third line, then he moved him off the pivot, then he stapled his ass to the bench. Kevin Hayes wasn't / isn't in the plans. So there wasn't much leverage for the Briere when it came to extracting an asset for a player that was clearly not wanted by his team.

So a 6th and clearing 3.5.aav of cap space is about what many expected. I thought Danny could maybe get a little more or retain less, I think Hayes at 4. aav is market price. The majority of our denizens just wanted Hayes gone,and mission accomplished, so I don't think the pitchforks are coming for Briere yet.

[Lindbergh31]

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

If he was, I hope he's learned from it.

I don't know that I think Danny needs to buy a new pair of pants though.

Torts wasn't digging the Kevin Hayes experience. After an early healthy scratch; He demoted him to the third line, then he moved him off the pivot, then he stapled his ass to the bench. Kevin Hayes wasn't / isn't in the plans. So there wasn't much leverage for the Briere when it came to extracting an asset for a player that was clearly not wanted by his team.

So a 6th and clearing 3.5.aav of cap space is about what many expected. I thought Danny could maybe get a little more or retain less, I think Hayes at 4. aav is market price. The majority of our denizens just wanted Hayes gone,and mission accomplished, so I don't think the pitchforks are coming for Briere yet.

Everyone in the league knew Fletcher overpaid when he signed Hayes to that contract. As for Briere, maybe he could have gotten more but at the end of the day he got rid of one of the many ****ups that Fletcher made. This year Briere is going to do what Hextall had to do when he replaced Holmgren,  clean up the ******** left behind by the previous GM. It seems Briere has a plan and now has to execute it and hopefully for Flyers fans it will lead back to the promise land one day.

[RonJeremy]

45 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

what does this mean?

 

It's a very popular beer.  

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, Tomdog said:

All I can say is you Philly guys are lucky you don’t have to deal with the cap recapture penalty that the Wild got saddled with. At least you have options on moving away from problem players. 

 

yeah this is pretty ugly ...

 

 

at least starting in 2025 it is a bit more palpable. 

[Howie58]

13 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Sorry if that's true. Not my intent. I just don't particularly care for the player.

 

 

Who's value?

 

Briere effectively is saying "we project we don't need that $3.5M for the next three years but we can use $3.5M in more productive ways in the meantime."

 

I made the comparison to the Ghost trade to say that in getting (however meagre) a draft asset instead of paying draft assets to move the player - especially following a publicly muffed trade - benefits Briere with a roster spot, cap space, and a draft pick; benefits Hayes by being moved respectfully; and we'll see how the Blues feel.

 

The Ghost of Sean Couturier will likely make up Kevin Hayes' purported role and impact easily. Especially as Hayes wasn't going to be played in that role.

 

Again, benefitted the team and the player costing mainly money that they likely won't need anyway.

 

Win.

Rad:  I hope that "The Ghost of Sean C..." is at least a pale semblance of what he was pre-injury.  Frosty is growing but I worry about him being #1.  We probably wore out Coots as Number 1.  Meanwhile, as noted early, I believe Coots is signed through 29-30.  This is another potential ChuckMeister FUBAR signing.  Between Ellis and Coots, we might have 13 million in pseudo-Dead cap space on LTIR.  Yeah, it can somehow be worked around, but the process to get it applied to the cap is cumbersome.  

 

Don't get me wrong--I am glad Hayes is out.  But my gut and half-brain tells me it is part of a Hinkie strategy that will make the next few years tough to watch.  Our goal situation is plausible.  On D, we have some prospects.  Boy--forwards...maybe Farabee comes back to life, Cates becomes a cheaper Coots, and Tippett is a Reggie Leach type.  My mind blanks after that....sadly.  Oh...and how can I forget, what about Cam?  Will he be part of the action, or more dead cap? 

[CoachX]

I don't understand this premise that DB "could have gotten more", for Hayes. Where exactly does that come from? Is there any real factual basis behind this POV, or is it just Flyer fan being Flyer fan? I find myself shaking my head at the forum GM's who always know better than the real GM

[CoachX]

26 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Don't get me wrong--I am glad Hayes is out.  But my gut and half-brain tells me it is part of a Hinkie strategy that will make the next few years tough to watch.  Our goal situation is plausible.  On D, we have some prospects.  Boy--forwards...maybe Farabee comes back to life, Cates becomes a cheaper Coots, and Tippett is a Reggie Leach type.  My mind blanks after that....sadly.  Oh...and how can I forget, what about Cam?

Howie, getting playerss like Hayes out, makes the next few years a lot more watchable to me. Will they lose most? Probably. But I want to see what Torts can do with a group of hungry young guys who aren't yet indicctrinated into the Flyer malaise we have seen for the last decade. Its Hayes, Laughton, Sanheim, Risto, any other old slug they put on defense, JVR and this weeks 4th line call up, that makes me tune out. Based off the moves already made, I will tune back in

[pilldoc]

28 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I don't understand this premise that DB "could have gotten more", for Hayes. Where exactly does that come from? Is there any real factual basis behind this POV, or is it just Flyer fan being Flyer fan? I find myself shaking my head at the forum GM's who always know better than the real GM

 

I believe that premise comes from the fact that he was 2nd on the team in scoring (wow a whopping 54 PTS) and the fact he was the Flyers lone All Star representative in the NHL Ice Capades known as the All Star game.  Hindsight being 20/20 many overvalue Hayes value, especially on other social media platforms.  I was never in that camp and hated the signing and contract from day 1.   Once Krug's agent leaked the info it was game over.

 

In all honestly as I and some others mentioned, I am just glad we did not have to GIVE up a pick to move him.

 

That's all I got .......

Edited June 28, 2023 by pilldoc

[Howie58]

I suspect we will forget Hayes existed. The same fior TDA.

 

The images that will now come to mind are  those of Morin, Rubstov, and Patrick....if our picks don't pan out.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Howie58

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, Tomdog said:

All I can say is you Philly guys are lucky you don’t have to deal with the cap recapture penalty that the Wild got saddled with. At least you have options on moving away from problem players. 

 

The saddest part is that after watching Fletcher do what he did to Minnesota, there was actually people who wanted to hire him. And then watched him do the exact same thing in Philly until a fan revolt got him fired. 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

It's a very popular beer.  

 

For people who don't really like the taste of beer.

[pilldoc]

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The saddest part is that after watching Fletcher do what he did to Minnesota, there was actually people who wanted to hire him. And then watched him do the exact same thing in Philly until a fan revolt got him fired. 

 

Sadly you can't fix stupid ......  sigh